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Bruce F

Wall opening - complex

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I've spent way too much time on this - trying to do an "Alhambra" type wall opening consisting of solid wall with two arches which bear on a center column (round) instead of rectangular wall section. I've used an extruded circle for the column coming up to the springline of the arch, set on top of a "door" PIO cased opening of the same height & radius. BUT the joint between arched cased opening PIO and the PIO trying to clear out the wall where the column rests remains a solid line in plan and other views. What to do? It totally spoils the effect.

Thanks,

Bruce

Mac OS X 10.4.11

1.8 GHz 1 GB

VW 2008 v13.0.0 F,A&R

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How about making a single symbol to make all the wall cuts?

Select the arched cased openings and create a symbol. Edit the symbol and add an extrude to tie them together in the center. This should then cut the entire wall and you can then add your column.

Pat

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You may also have to "hybridize" the symbol so you get the look you want in both plan view and section/elevation views

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I've made a NURBS 3D symbol and placed it as a door, but the wall won't conform to the arched top shape (leaves a rectangle) and doesn't make the opening transparent. The plan view is solid with quarter arc lines showing, which won't fly either. Since it's a 3D model hybridizing doesn't seem to be an option.

I've attached my failed attempts to date - the upper is using door PIOs and an extrude, and the lower left is decomposing a door into 3D polys.../Users/brucefab/Desktop/arched openings.tiff Oh well, can't attach stuff

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You should be able to attach an image, but I don't think tiff is accepted. Try jpeg or png.

Without seeing what you are tryng to do it is hard to help.

I created a NURBs arch, by using an arc and 3 lines and converting to a polyline and then to a NURBS Curve. I then used the Protrusion tool to give it a thickness (tapered extrude). I then made a symbol out of it.

It inserts in a wall just fine, and cuts in both 2D and 3D.

Symbols in Walls can't have concave parts, so if you are trying to do a concave surface, you have to use some workarounds.

One thing I did notice is that NURBS curves converted to Tapered Extrudes render as Black when set to No Fill. I am still researching this.

Pat

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Pat, sorry to be dim about this, but the "enter an image" button gives me a URL line to enter...this is what I can drag into the text box: /Users/brucefab/Desktop/arched openings.jpg or into the image button above: arched openings.jpg

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Thanks Pat. Hope the jpeg is attached like it says. The right-hand one is using door PIOs and an extrude, while the left is door PIO converted into 3D polys, with extrude all in a symbol. Hope this makes it clearer.

Thanks again,

Bruce

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OK, I gave you bad advice before. The "concave" area between the two arches will not be filled by the wall in a single symbol.

I would recommend that you go back to the two original arches. Make sure they are set in the Insertion Options (or Properties from the contextual menu) to Full Breaks without Caps. Then make another symbol that will cut the portion of the wall for the round column. Make sure it is set for Full Break without Caps.

I think this should give you what you need.

Pat

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Yup, that's just how the right-hand picture was constructed. I've made all jambs and wall lines invisible, drug the door PIOs precisely to the edge of the center PIO, and still the division between arch and central "door" expresses as a line in plan and a solide plan in 3D views.

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OK, Lets try it this way. Make the elevation view of the arch as a polyline. Convert to 3D Polygons set it to no fill and no line and then make a symbol of it. Make the insertion options to Full Breaks with No Caps.

Then do something similar for the center.

Pat

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I wish it would...The caps won't go away no matter what. I made what I want (attached) but it's no longer a wall but a 3D solid with an extrude for the column (that will not render solid in one strip of the column no matter what I do - using Renderworks final shaded). So I'm stuck not being able to get walls to act right.

Thanks for trying Pat.

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If you want, you can send me a file with the arches you want to use and I will set them up to properly insert into a wall and let you know how I did it. Send me a private message and I will give you an email address to send the file to.

Pat

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Use 1 symbol, consisting of two-arch-top pio's, your extruded column geometry, AND a piece of geometry to fill the gap between the pio arches/top of column. Then add 2d stuff to the symbol to get that looking the way you want.

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I still get jamb planes that won't go away in plan or 3D using this logic. It does seem like it would work though. Maybe because they're more door-like. I've gone through all the door PIO options for visibility and the jamb line won't go away, with or without a gap-cutter(I tried one for the full 10'8" opening up to springline, and then get a header plane lind as well)...See attached for the conundrum

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Every opening pio inserted into a wall will have a wall depth x 0 width "surround". The trick is to put that insertion artifact beyond the area that you care about. If you gather all the bits inside ONE symbol, the insertion artifact will surround the whole collection, not the individual pio's and such. It effectively becomes lost at the break between your 3d geometry and the wall, although it will show up in HL renders as a straight line where your geometry is concave.

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If you look at #99611 you can see where I tried this, but the wall won't come down between the arches...

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Bruce, the portion of the wall between the arches needs to be included as part of the 3D portion of the hybrid symbol.

Openings in walls cannot have rentrant corners which is why your sections of walls between the arches don't appear. The image below shows an instance of this.

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