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JHEarcht

Xref to design layer VP mis-aligned

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VW2008, SP2, R3, build 83388, on Windows XP

Dell 360 Workstation, Pentium 2.8ghz, 1MB DDR SDram,

nVIDIA Quadro FX 3000 graphics card

My first attempts to use a Design Layer Viewport with an external reference have not been successful. The Target document is a 2D only design layer at 1/32" scale with a new VP crop. The referenced document is another Viewport on a Design Layer at 1/16" scale. After import into the the target, the original VP and the original design layer linework are mis-aligned. They are offset by about 2 feet at 1/32" scale. Obviously this is not acceptable. So any helpful suggestions will be appreciated.

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Changing scales shouldn't cause linework in a VP to offset due to scale accuracy issues should it? Any other idea why the properly aligned original could be mis-aligned in the target?

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No, changing layer scales should not cause an offset.

I find your description of what you are doing/trying to do hard to understand. Can you explain more step by step what you are doing so perhaps someone can help?

Pat

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I have a Design Layer Viewport on a 30x42 sheet. I made new linework and annotations on the Design Layer (all at 1/16" scale). Now I want to export that design layer to another VW file setup for an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet. I setup a new Design Layer VP at 1/32" scale, and use Workgroup Referencing to place the original VP in the new drawing. The only difference is the physical size of the sheet and the scale of the layer.

But in the target VP the linework in the original VP is now misaligned by about 2 feet at 1/32" scale. In the original VP the heavy line was an outline of the gray wall, but on a different layer at the same scale. Now in the new VP the heavy line has shifted about 2 feet to the right as shown in the picture.

Aligned.jpg

Misalign.jpg

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Is there a reason you are creating the DLVP in the original file and then workgroup referencing into the other file?

DLVPs can reference the layers in other files directly and cut out two steps.

In the small file, create a new VP, put it on the design layer, and select the original file as the source. Maybe that will get you what you need.

I tried to create a DLVP in the first file and then workgroup reference it into a second file, but the VP was deleted as not allowed in a WGR file.

Am I missing something?

Pat

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Were they once aligned and then moved when you re-opened the drawing? I've had this problem on a number of occasions. I would set up a VP with source drawing referenced. I would then do additional drawing in the target file. Upon re-opening the target file, the referenced plan in the VP would have shifted. Setting the origin of the source plan and the target to Drawing Center seems to have fixed it for me. I also lock the VP position in the OIP.

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The large drawing is for construction-related information. The small drawing is for leasing purposes. Since X-reffing the large VP directly onto the small drawing is not working, I'll take your suggestion and try to recreate the original VP layer-by-layer into the new file. But I still can't imagine why the referenced layers would be offset. Seems to me that there's more to go wrong when X-reffing parts of three external layers, than just one VP on a single layer. Thanks for the help.

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I have now X-reffed the original 3 layers separately into the new document. But now I have to manually align them, which is a pain. Fortunately, by making two new VPs I can manipulate them with the nudge tool to get them aligned.

I would still like to know if the mis-alignment is a VW glitch, or if I just don't understand how it is supposed to work. If no one else can reproduce this behavior, I can't really submit it as a bug.

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It is sounding more and more like there is a problem with your original file. Have you reset the origin or moved the page or anything like that?

When you made the DLVP in the original file was there any offset of any of the layers? What if you make another DLVP now of the three layers?

This is getting pretty deep.

Pat

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The original file is a VP on design layer created from two other layers: a site plan, and a tenant plan. On the third layer the VP is in a different location on the sheet from same area on the referenced design layers and twice the size. But the misalignment is not seen on the original document, only in the X-ref'd target document. If I make a PDF of the original and paste it on the target, it looks fine, but it does not automatically update when I change the original.

This is indeed getting deep. And my wheels are spinning deeper and deeper. I'm on my third workaround, and manual alignment of two VPs may be a potential disaster if the client tries to manipulate the final DWG export. I would prefer for VW to automatically align the layers just as they are in the original.

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I'm still having trouble understanding what you are doing.

You have three design layers, the Site Plan, the Tenant Plan, and a layer with a DLVP. The DLVP layer is at twice the scale as the Site and Tenant Plans. The DLVP has been moved (and cropped?) so the drawing is at a different location than the original lines.

Is the above correct?

What is it that you want to get into the 8.5x11 (small) file?

You should be able to create a DLVP in the small file consisting of just the DLVP Layer of the original file. Or create a DLVP in the small file consisting of just the DLVP layer of the original file. I don't see why you would want to bring in all three layers.

I think you might be seeing the expected operation, but the portion of the drawing you have cropped to is hiding what is actually going on.

A DLVP comes in at the scale of the layer it is placed on. That means that if you bring in layers of different scales, you will get "shifting" of objects as they are still at the correct distance from the origin.

For example is you bring in a 1:1 layer with a square, and a 1:2 layer with a circle that is inscribed when viewing both design layers, the 1:2 layer will look bigger in the DLVP and it will now surround the square.

I think something similar is at work here, but that based on where your origin is located, the lines are just shifting a little bit in the part of the viewport we have been looking at.

Could this be the problem?

Pat

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Pat

Thanks for the suggestions. All I'm trying to do is take a snapshot of something (a DLVP and some overlaid linework---same scale---on the DL)in one file and xref it into another file at a different scale. However, I need the xref'd copy to automatically update, so a bitmap won't work. I may be confusing you with a complex list of workarounds I have tried. the basic idea is very simple. But then, I am new to X-refing in VW.

Since the misalignment is only 2 feet (@ 1/32" scale), I doubt that it has anything to do with the different drawing origins. When I deliberately turn on the design layers linked to the DLVP (in the original document) they are clearly in a different location. This problem is more subtle, but it's a job killer.

I have concluded that there is some kind of bug in the new DLVP function. So I have been experimenting with complex, multi-step workarounds to get the same effect.

By the way, when I export the VW files to DWG for the client, will VW automatically embed the external information? Or will I have to tell the client to reset the path between original and target?

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While I'm experimenting, I think I'll put the overlaid linework directly into the DLVP as an annotation. Maybe the problem has to do with aligning the stuff in a VP with stuff outside the VP. Drawing directly on the DL is easier for me, but maybe it's harder for VW to keep track of.

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PS---When I make a change to the original X-ref'd document, then go back to the target, and click Update All Viewports, the recent changes are not updated. Am I missing something?

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To update DLVPs, you have to update the reference to the source file via the 'Reference' tab of the organization dialog.

If the layers in your source file have different scales and those layers are referenced into a target file, those layers will draw at the same scale as the layer on which the referenced DLVP is placed.

You can send me your files off-list and I can see why things are shifting as you described.

Tolu

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Be careful with the Update All Viewports command. It does exactly what it says and updates all the viewports in the drawing. If you have a lot of viewports, it can take a loooooong time.

I accidentally clicked that in a file with about 250 viewports, many of them Hidden Line. It took over 17 hours to update.

Pat

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John,

I can't duplicate your offsetting here. I recommend that you do send the file to NNA to look at. There could be more wrong in the file that could come back to bite you later.

Pat

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What is being offset in the target document is the linework I drew on the Design Layer on top of the DLVP. I just tried to paste the overlaid lines into the VP as an annotation, but I find that DLVPs don't allow annotation within the VP. So another workaround shot down.

I've got to wrap this thing up today. But I'll be starting another similar project next week. So I'll have to find time to let NNA look at it.

Pat, thanks for the tip about the Update All command. Now I know where to look to update just the referenced document.

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