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John Gr

Roof Trusses -- What PIO would you Like?

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Hi there

I created the Roof Truss PIO posted on Vector Depot a few years ago as a tester to see if there was an interest in VW users having the ability place trusses onto there drawings.

I had limited feedback so i didnt carry on with the development.

I have read a few posting from a while ago.

Is there an interest out there now?

Are you using my Truss PIO in your drawings?

What features would you recomend?

Would you be prepared to pay for a complete Truss Package?

I am keen to hear what you would consider useful PIOs to inprove you workflow.

What other PIOs would you like?

Any Feedback appreciated.

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John. I've used them and found them very useful. With the paradigm changing to 3D there will be an increasing demand for 'smart' objects (ie PIOs) of various types.

If you can expand the range to provide pitched trusses of various types in both timber and steel I think there would be a market. You would also need to include the ability to model trusses at hips and valleys so that more complex roofs can be modeled.

Currently VW does not cover structural elements at all well, despite many of them being basic building elements. Parametric objects are needed for:

- Columns (vertical and inclined).

- Beams (flat and pitched).

- Trusses (flat and pitched).

- Portal frames.

- Strip footings with steps for changes in level.

Where applicable there would need to be options for timber, steel or concrete types.

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John,

Yes, I concur on the usefulness of additional plug-in objects like trusses, after all, let's get this application to really be true BIM and have true live sections. A simple stem wall foundation with footing would be a great start, and yes, I would be willing to pay for it. Seems like VW should have some of these fundamental PIO's in the first place.

Regards,

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Hello John,

I downloaded your truss plug-ins and tried them out in VW. Very nice effort on these plug-ins. I had to adjust all the defaults before the plug-in started to look like a truss. I wonder if others who have tried the plug-in maybe didn?t get all the defaults adjusted correctly in order to see how it worked. Also, your standard naming conventions for the fields may be confusing for some, for example, our gable overhang is a gable overhang, not an eave overhang, etc, you might consider having some sort of help file with a graphic to help others with what object is changed by a given plug-in field.

I would like to learn how to develop plug-ins like this. Do you have any suggestions as to where to start.

Just some feedback on the plug-ins.

?The trusses would need to allow full eave cantilever. We rarely use the standard truss overhang because that limits the insulation depth at the exterior wall.

?Allow pitch fields to allow a rise/run input rather than an angle, it?s just a calculation time thing when you have a few different pitches to work with.

Otherwise nice job on these and thanks again for the effort.

Best Regards,

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Mike, you said:

Parametric objects are needed for:

- Columns (vertical and inclined).

- Beams (flat and pitched).

- Trusses (flat...

Where applicable there would need to be options for timber, steel or concrete types.

VectorWorks Architect has Column (admittedly limited but suitable for timber or concrete), and Framing Member and Joist objects that handle beams (both flat and pitched) and trusses. I will be the first to recognize that they don't do all they need to yet, but they are there and they integrate with the framing commands.

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Count me in on the interested list for a Truss plugin or parametric object...it would be very useful. I'd pay a modest fee if required.

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I have always been mystified by the Framing member tool. The first time I used it the Open web steel joist mode the default settings forced me to place a minimum length truss of 41'4.8". I gave up for a couple of months. After another try and adjusting all of the parameters I was able to get a reasonable looking truss. It seems the panel spacing controls the minimum length of the truss rather than the length being specified and the panels adjusting accordingly to some reasonable setting.

Has anyone built a truss library containg truss PIO's?

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First off, this is a REALLY old thread. But I'm not unhappy it was revived. The Framing Member tool is very useful for Joists, Rafters, Open Web (flat) Trusses and the like. It is not intended for common wood (or steel) Roof Trusses as we know them (ie: Top chord with pitch, bottom chord either flat or scissored and various vertical and/or pitched webbing). For the latter I have become rather fond of modeling the truss by drawing the profile and extruding, then creating a rectangle in top/plan and using both to create Hybrid Symbol(s). Yes it take a little work to do this but I find it pays off when the actual construction "works like a charm" (which is the usual comment I get from builders). I create my symbols after consulting a Licensed Truss MFR, based on their requirements.

Yes it would be great if VW's had a parametric Roof Truss of the sort described above, but I wouldn't hold your breath. For many reasons, probably one of the foremost being potential liability, the task of actual truss design is perhaps best left to the Licensed Truss MFR.

VW's is not a structural engineering program and is not intended to replace to role of a structural (or other) engineers.

It can be dangerous to be able to draw something that cannot actually be built or is not designed to your local or regional standard(s).

In answer to your last question, yes there was (perhaps still is?) a third party plug-in which did this. But memory says it was pretty limited. I don't think it's still around (I did a quick search and came up empty).

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Guest Mark Flamer

Structural engineers need BIM too.

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Guest
Meaning???..

The Architects@NNA have had long enough to get BIM

(Data Collaboration and tools) right...if they cant deliver step aside others can and will.

Its a sad state when Architects Images (of Rendered models) and Data are being refered to as PHLOODOGRAMMETRY-Get the gist

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(deleted by administrator)

Secondly, the product is called Vectorworks Architect, not Vectorworks Structural Engineering. Our goal is to focus on the architects' needs for design and working with other disciplines to complete a building design. It is just one BIM tool in a process that really does require multiple BIM tools, each one focused on providing the best solution for each domain (mechnical, electrical, plumbing, structural, energy analysis, etc.).

For the best, most extensive Structural Engineering modeling, design, and analysis tools, I suggest you look at and use our sister company product Nemetschek Scia Engineer. We have shown with the DC Riverside Office Building project that Vectorworks Architect and Scia Engineer can work together (via IFC) to give architect and structural engineer to tools to collaborate while pursuing their own responsibilities.

In response to the thread, there are some objects that do cross disciplines and may be useful to both architects and structural engineers, even in different platforms. I think that taking an initiative and defining what those objects are and how they should work for architect vs. structural engineers is a good thing for users to respond to, with honesty and in good faith/spirit.

Edited by JPA

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Structural engineers need BIM too.

Or do you mean cheap Structural BIM?

Edited by Vincent C

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Guest Mark Flamer

PHLOODOGRAMMETRY? What is this?

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(deleted by administrator)

In response to the thread, there are some objects that do cross disciplines and may be useful to both architects and structural engineers, even in different platforms. I think that taking an initiative and defining what those objects are and how they should work for architect vs. structural engineers is a good thing for users to respond to, with honesty and in good faith/spirit.

Now we are on the same page...too bad it took several DISASTERS for you guys to wake up.NOTE...If pathetic US architect(Users) have a problem with structural elements I use Designer and so you can start by adding Mikes requests above.Now if you want more,then you have to give users more.(Quid Pro Quo)

HTH

Edited by BuildingDesignConsultant

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Guest
PHLOODOGRAMMETRY? What is this?

I would have to tell you in confidence. Hmmmm,You might not see the funny side if you are an Archicad or VW Illustrator (using 3D BIM) working in the Brisbane lower CBD...

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Roof truss tools seem to be really popular in other residential CAD programs

If you do do a PIO, make sure you add in dropped heel style to provide

extra depth at the plate to satisfy our new (WA) energy code.

Edited by Tom G.

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Interesting, we usually use a "raised heel" for extra thickness (for insulation) at/near the plate line...

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Tom, here is a pretty comprehensive visual catalog of wood truss types. Any one of these can have a raised heel. If NV (or anyone else) is planning to build a Plugin for trusses, all these (and probably more) should be included.http://www.jonestruss.com/pdf/jbs_trusstypes.pdf

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Hello John,

I downloaded your truss plug-ins and tried them out in VW. Very nice effort on these plug-ins. I had to adjust all the defaults before the plug-in started to look like a truss. I wonder if others who have tried the plug-in maybe didn?t get all the defaults adjusted correctly in order to see how it worked.

I've also been using the Roof Truss plug-ins, and discovered the same problem. When placing a truss in a document using imperial units, the default values transfer directly from millimeters to inches, to make the truss look distorted by a factor of 25.4.

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