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Tamsin Slatter

Space Tool - lack of understanding

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I spend most of my time training on Landmark as I'm a Landscape Designer by trade. However, a recent client has requirements which have had be "dabbling" in the Architect workspace. Please forgive my ignorance - it is largely to do with not being an architect I guess... but I would love some further explanation on the use and purpose of the space tool. I promise I HAVE read the manual and various workbooks...

1) Clearly I can draw an area and it becomes a space object. However, the dimensions in the OIP do not exactly correspond with the area I have drawn. The length is the same, but the width is not.

2) If I try to change the dimensions in the OIP, it has no effect on the object in the drawing area. Should it? Or am I missing the point?

3) If I draw a space to precise dimensions, or create a space from existing walls, why do I need to tell VW the proposed area? Why can't it work this out? Again, please forgive my ignorance if I am completely missing the point!

Many thanks

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Aha! Brilliant - thanks. Now - about the proposed area field. Why would I need to complete this when VW already knows the dimensions of my polyline / Space?

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With things architectural the Space Tool gathers information as you've seen within the "Set Additional Data." This is the location for entering room finishes for floors, walls and ceilings - the data can then flow to Room Finish Schedules, Door & Window Schedules, etc. depending on how they are set up and what data you are interested in displaying.

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Thanks guys.

So really it's a case that perhaps it SHOULD be able to calculate the proposed area, but it doesn't?

A bit like the Place Plant tool SHOULD be able to use the plant's height and spread from the database - but doesn't...

Thanks for your help.

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1) Clearly I can draw an area and it becomes a space object. However, the dimensions in the OIP do not exactly correspond with the area I have drawn. The length is the same, but the width is not.

2) If I try to change the dimensions in the OIP, it has no effect on the object in the drawing area. Should it? Or am I missing the point?

3) If I draw a space to precise dimensions, or create a space from existing walls, why do I need to tell VW the proposed area? Why can't it work this out? Again, please forgive my ignorance if I am completely missing the point!

RE: #1: I've found that the OIP dimensions DO correspond with the object, however the dimensions in the Length and Width fields are transposed for some reason. It doesn't seem to matter whether I draw the object from left to right, or bottom to top. I'd consider Width to be from one side of the screen to the other and Length to be from top of screen to bottom. VW thinks it's the other way round.

RE: #2: True. (And thanks brudgers for the tip about Edit Group. Very helpful.)

However, the space is a poly, and if you scroll to the bottom of the OIP there are the same "Move Vertex" options that you use with polys. If you select Move: Vertex Only in the dropdown menu and click the arrow buttons to select the vertex you want to move, you can enter values in the fields to achieve your change. (you can add and subtract here using +/-).

You can also double click on the space object and it will enter reshape mode, allowing you to edit it directly with the cursor.

RE: #3: The space tool will show you the ACTUAL area of the space. How would it know what the proposed area should be unless you tell it? I think the proposed field is there so you can use it as a reference while you are modifying the space and comparing it to the actual field.

I think it would be handy to be able to enter a proposed area and click a button and have the space increase/decrease to that area. It would give you a jumping off point for further modification. I think this was discussed in the past and lots of technical problems were brought up, but I cannot believe it is unachievable and would be helpful IMHO.

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I've found that the OIP dimensions DO correspond with the object, however the dimensions in the Length and Width fields are transposed for some reason.

Maybe the space was rotated previously.

This happens with rectangles.

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have you tried using the Objects From Polyline... command from the Modify menu or the Create Spaces From Polygon command from the AEC menu?

i find these a quick way to make spaces because you can draw all your spaces with simple tools, get your spaces all lined up and then make spaces...

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Jonathan,

Yes, I agree.

But that brings up another point...

The space tool is a polygon which allows for creating non-rectilinear spaces. This is good.

However, the polygon is somewhat cumbersome when it comes to making modifications to spaces that ARE rectilinear, as I'd imagine the great majority are. When using the reshape tool and dragging one side of a poly to change it's size, it is easy to accidentally change a space from a rectangle to a parallelogram.

It would be cool if the Space Tool had the ability to toggle between "Rectangle Mode" where the space could be changed by dragging a corner as you do with the rectangle tool, and "Polygon Mode" where it would behave as it does now, while preserving all the other info contained in the space.

I think if it behaved that way, then you could more easily draw your spaces directly with the space tool rather than having to convert from other objects. It would also provide the benefit of having all the space names and information available in the spaces while you work, which I think is one of the great advantages of the space objects.

Do you agree?

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the reason I like making the shapes first is because i can make them as rectangles, or as polygons or polylines. Then make them all into spaces. But once they are spaces they are so easy to edit and move...

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Thanks for all the responses - very helpful. I have tried the convert to space and yes of course that's always a great option with so many VW objects.

I am now getting a view that I would use Space purely to be able to report on information about that space? In effect, it is a tool which allows me to create a record about that space.

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The space object allows for a different type of manipulation than walls.

Spaces also have volumetric properties, so you can stack them in 3d.

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