J Lucas Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) I saw a post from Islandmon where he said something like: the fun of using VW was in using the different 3D tools to greatest advantage for a given task. This intrigued me and I would like to learn the powers, weakness and relations between the various 3D tools. The manuals provide some basic information in this regard but clearly do not give a complete view. Is there a clear overview or, say, a matrix of the VW 3D tools powers, weaknesses, and ways they can be expected to interact? Or, any suggestions regarding a systematic way of learning this? Is the VectorWorks 3D Modeling and Rendering guide a good place to start? Edited February 1, 2008 by J Lucas Quote Link to comment
islandmon Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 The basic idea is that "Less is always more" ... and " more is always much more " All Objects are described mathematically , but not all math is equally efficient. For example, (1+1+1+1+1)=5, or (5*1)=5. Surfacing has similar efficiencies whereby describing a Polyline profile and then a NURBS path for it to follow is more efficient than quantifying thousands of facets & mesh points like in the old days. Although, for comparison you can deconstruct a NURBS Path object to a predetermined frequency of tessellation. Your excellent suggestion for "a matrix of the VW 3D tools power, weaknesses, and ways they can be expected to interact" needs to be placed on the WishList Forum. Quote Link to comment
exocubic Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I asked precisely this question a few weeks back and was met with resounding silence. Most of my questions relating to solids modeling, particularly those relating to mechanical or non-architectural subjects are similarly falling on deaf ears. I wish you luck. http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=7&Number=94478&Searchpage=1&Main=20174&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post94478 http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=2&Number=96349&Searchpage=1&Main=20649&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post96349 http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=95231&Searchpage=1&Main=20362&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post95231 http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=12&Number=94048&Searchpage=1&Main=20092&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post94048 Quote Link to comment
J Lucas Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Islandmon, I will post the request for the matrix to the wishlist. How did you learn it? Quote Link to comment
islandmon Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 How did you learn it? The hard way .. my friend ... the hard way ... being from the olde school ... programmed my first app via punchcards ... originally, all 3d modeling was poly-mesh based ... let me tell you what a limitation that was. With NURBS ... 3d is a delightful lo-stress experience. Basically, profiles & paths resolve the majority of structural component objects. For example, this entire structure is composed of NURBS Path symbols: http://www.fractalnet.org/gallery2/v/ARCH/TAG5147/ Quote Link to comment
J Lucas Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 Wow, from the manuals I had no clue you could do such things with NURBS. Great to see what is possible. Have you posted a process sequence for creating such things? Thanks! Quote Link to comment
islandmon Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Basically here it is: 1) Create 1 ExtrudeAlongpath symbol for each type of Object making sure it is long enough for every instance, ie. WF Beam & assign Class. 2) Add a 2d component as required with Classes & Txt, etc. 3) Duplicate & Rename & Edit the Hybrid Symbol 4) Replace the Profile with other Beam Polylines, then change the length if needed. 5) Now that you have each WF type of Beam as Hybrid Symbols 6) Duplicate & Rename the Hybrid >Type , ie. W16x22 for different lengths. 7) Symbol Edit>2d change the length & txt 8) Symbol edit 3d change the length of the Path by editing by vertex repeat for every structural member it's that simple... Quote Link to comment
J Lucas Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 islandmon, I have studied the sequence and have some questions: At what point in the process does it become NURBS curves and surfaces? I have recently used a similar process to model a cable railing system. When editing resulting symbols and groups I noticed that some of the extruded solids had changed to NURBS curves and surfaces. What curved or curve like profiles do you use to avoid long rendering time? I used a circle for my cable extrude profile and had to go back and change it to a hexgon. Also, it seems like the fillets I used in profiles of the top rail and steel tubing resulted in very long render times. Anyway to avoid this? 1) What do you mean by "long"? beam length? or profile width or height? Why does it have to be "long" enough here if length is adjusted later? 3) What do you "Edit" in 3) or is that what follows in 4)... 4) "other Beam Polylines" means other beam profiles? Changing the length here is replacing or lengthening the path? 8) Why do you change the length in 4) if you will change it again in 8)? Thanks again for the help! Quote Link to comment
Charlie_P Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Islandmon you are a god, sage, druid, guru, savant and many more. It's not just the design in itself it's the economy of action wherein lies the beauty. Quote Link to comment
islandmon Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 1) At what point in the process does it become NURBS curves and surfaces? ExtrudeAlongPath only works with NURBS Polyline Profile & NURBS Path . The beauty is that there are no surfaces to deal with. 2) I have recently used a similar process to model a cable railing system. When editing resulting symbols and groups I noticed that some of the extruded solids had changed to NURBS curves and surfaces. Yes... that is why we are using EtrudeAlongPath instead. 3) What curved or curve like profiles do you use to avoid long rendering time? I used a circle for my cable extrude profile and had to go back and change it to a hexgon. Try to match the frequency of the circle to the final product. This can be done in Preference or via the OIP> OpenGL > NURBS 4) Also, it seems like the fillets I used in profiles of the top rail and steel tubing resulted in very long render times. Anyway to avoid this? Yes.. use a basic NURBS polyline profile and a NURBS Path. The rendering is very efficient. 5) What do you mean by "long"? beam length? or profile width or height? Why does it have to be "long" enough here if length is adjusted later? Long= NURBS Path... my preference to is create a generic symbol with all the necessary attributes including length which may come into play if I need to rotate the beam in X or Y and then trim it. 6) What do you "Edit" in 3) or is that what follows in 4)... First, edit the 2d part of the Hybrid to the correct length & width and txt & attributes, etc including placement of the 2d Loci. Then over to the 3d ExtrudeAlongPath to edit the path Length & profile, etc. 7) "other Beam Polylines" means other beam profiles? Changing the length here is replacing or lengthening the path? Correct ... edit the profile which is a polyline and/or edit the path which is the length of the beam. 8) 8) Why do you change the length in 4) if you will change it again in 8)? a. Create a generic Hybrid Beam Symbol using any Beam Polyline Profile and NURBS Path length. Include a simple 2d representation of it for plan purposes. b. Duplicate the generic Hybrid .. rename & modify for each Beam type required. c. Duplicate one of the generic Beam Types..say W16x22x20' and Rename it W16x22x18.5'. d. Edit the W16x22x18.5' Hybrid Symbol for the correct length & other attributes. _____________ Charlie_P ... your positive comments are greatly appreciated .. and.. yes .. i totally agreed with your assessment: "It's not just the design in itself it's the economy of action wherein lies the beauty." Quote Link to comment
J Lucas Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 islandmon: many bows and salutations of gratitude. In the meantime I did some homework and watched all the movies on advanced 3D modeling on this web site. That also helped me see what is possible. The movies were from version 10.5, so it seems like the 3D modeling has not made any big leaps since then. Is that true? Quote Link to comment
islandmon Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 The Fundamentals of 2d / 3d have remained consistent. There are major advancements in other 2d/3d related areas involving scripting, editing, presentation & rendering. Quote Link to comment
J Lucas Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thanks, that helps give perspective. Quote Link to comment
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