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mike m oz

Terminology confusion.

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Mike, first you admit terminology is not universal then you tell me American terminology is more universal. You yourself started this thread by outlining the differences.

Secondly it's not just terminology that is affected by the U.S.-market-comes-first problem. It's also a problem with plug-in objects such as stairs and windows.

If NNA was configured in such a way to design VW for the global market first and foremost this would almost certainly avoid many of these problems and we would all have been far further down the 3D road than we are.

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I must agree with christiaan.

Our local dealer makes a lot of own pio's because we can't use the ones already in VW.

But the stopped working on their stair object because the one in VW is 'ok'.

But it's not ok, nobody use it here because it's not drawn correct. The stairs do need a lot of work.

NNA should concentrate more on general PIOS that everybody can use.

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Christiaan, that is the point. Terminology is not universal but there is one version of English which is more common than the rest and that is American English. So we live with their terminology as being the common demoninator. The differences aren't that great.

The capabilities of the PIOs is a different issue. That comes down to programming. General statements saying they don't work the way you would like them to work doesn't help NNA fix the problems because it doesn't identify what the problems are. You need to show them what your needs are with clear unambiguous images. Then you might have some chance of them being addressed.

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So we live with their terminology as being the common demoninator.

No, sorry, "we" don't.

The capabilities of the PIOs is a different issue. That comes down to programming. General statements saying they don't work the way you would like them to work doesn't help NNA fix the problems because it doesn't identify what the problems are. You need to show them what your needs are with clear unambiguous images.

It's not a different issue. As you know I've posted detailed wishlists regarding many of these issues but I've come to realise that this isn't the solution to this particular problem because it's systemic; that NNA develops first for the U.S. market instead of the global market.

As long as NNA develops first for the U.S. market it will be a continuous battle for people like me posting wishlists and bug reports because new features and changes aren't designed with us in mind in the first place.

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I don't think a universal window PIO is possible. Check that...it's possible but it would be a major undertaking. InteriorCad has produced the closest thing I've seen to a universal cabinet PIO, but it costs about the same as Fundamentals.

This is an inherent problem with parametrically controlled objects. At a certain point it becomes necessary to actually draw what you want, even with InteriorCad.

Terminology: Is it WallBoard,SheetRock,DryWall or Gypsum Board? All of these are standard names in different parts of North America alone. And let's not forget that there's not even consensus here on these boards as to what "None" means.

There are limits to what software can do and there always will be. Many of these limits are outside the scope of software design. Localisation is the answer. Who's responsibility is the question.

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Maybe the philosophy needs to change from having few Smart Tools to having many Smart Objects. Instead of having PIOs that try to do everything for all people (and inevitably fail to do so) have Smart Objects that have quite specific purposes.

The responsibility for meeting local needs has to rest with the local distributors. NNA should work to make it easier to provide this, but it is the local distributors who should be providing the Standards, Symbols and Smart Objects that meet their users' needs. The good distributors already do this.

Edited by mike m oz

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As I've said many times, one of the problems is that non-US users have to pay for content and PIOs that are of no use to them and then pay also for the local content.

One way to work with the local distributors would be to provide cheaper versions without the useless content.

No, Fundamentals is not the solution. Although it may not have much content, it is crippled as comes to adding the local content.

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Interesting comments by all, especially the research from Dr. Mike M!

From a software engineering point of view, there is a very interesting and pragmatic solution - terminology tables. All the key words in VW's user interface have a more correct term in the various markets. So the answer is to have all these key terms represented by variables in the code. This set of variables can be mapped to a series of regionally-based terminology tables, and displayed on screen to the user according to whatever regional preference is selected.

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i thought the only difference between the keyboard layouts was that they reversed the "r" and the "e" keys... which would account for why you cats spell "center" all funny like. ;)

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Construction terms vary within a country also, and even within a state in the US. When I worked as a carpenter in a small town in Missouri, I had to use the term "sidewall" for the structures that separate one room from another. They thought the word "partition" only applied to bathroom stalls. And the notched 2x12's that support a flight of stairs were called "stair horses." There were lots of other local construction terms that I had to learn. Creating a BIM standard is a bit like building the tower of Babel.

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From a software engineering point of view, there is a very interesting and pragmatic solution - terminology tables. All the key words in VW's user interface have a more correct term in the various markets. So the answer is to have all these key terms represented by variables in the code.

Finally. Funny how far a little sense and imagination goes.

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MJW -

NNA does work actively with CU to develop local content. Please do not make statements with which you do not have supporting evidence to back up.

Many of the new features in VW 2008 are direct requests from UK users per different meetings NNA employees had with local users.

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Where's the pudding, Katie? It seems that the natives are becoming restless, despite your agit-prop.

Well, whatever. How actively does NNA work with Ultirender to develop local content in Finland? Has NNA revealed to Ultirender how to make VS-based local PIOs IFC-compliant?

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Petri -

You should bring this discussion up with Ultirender. They have a means of communicating ideas, concepts, wants/needs with NNA, just like all other distributors around the world.

As we've discussed in the past, I strongly encourage you to push your wants/needs through Ultirender, who can then push it through NNA.

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And they have not tried? Please do not make statements with which you do not have supporting evidence to back up.

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Most of you guys are Enlish speaking clever fellows - still you argue about the terminology used in VW. Imagine my possition. No Swedish version is available and not even the dictionaries are consistent. Then again, how could they?

Not even in our office, we use the same words at all time - so what is a world-wide true terminology. There just is none.

Just like it is possible to edit the workspace, all displayed terms used within the program should be editable, just like a workspace or within it. Then I can choose to call sills, mullions etc whatever suits me. Whenever the alt-key is pressed the original term pops up. American or not is less important to me.

Retondos suggestion with terminology tables (also editable and printable)could be a good base for it.

As for the American windows...I love them - if they were possible to use in our climate. But, sorry - no. We're talking about exterior walls with 400mm (16") insulation in a near future. The windows need to fit technically to these conditions.

Locally adapted PIOs in Sweden - never heard of! Who provides those?

Maybe the German-Swiss-Austrian pios are good - where can these be found?

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Locally adapted PIOs in Sweden - never heard of! Who provides those?

H?rr Lundstr?m? Jag tror han ?r din man!

Lundstr?m Design, Ekhagsv?gen 7, 104 05 Stockholm, Sweden

Phone int-46-8-15 46 63, Fax int+46-15 82 85, E-mail: info@touchcad.com

IP Phone numbers: Skype: touchcad, - iChat: touchcad, - AIM: touchcad

EDIT Programpaketet?

EDIT 2 Right. Obviously no longer them.

Edited by Petri

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