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kenzo25

newbie problem: height disparity between site model and building

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Hi everybody!

My site model is placed with the real height relativity to the zero plane, and in my "model setup" for the levels of the building i have the same coordinates that would put my model in top of the terrain.

What am i missing here?

thank's!

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thank for replying,

The image sent was produced with stack layers on.

That elevation you mentioned Robert, of 56,2000m, is the real elevation that the interior surface of the floor has in relationship to the 0m/sea level.

I was trying to work in top of the topography.

I don't know if this is the right method of working.

Thanks

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what gives with those weird elevations:

Elevation (FF): 56,2000

Weird? Well, of course one 10th of a millimeter is a bit weird... Other than that, what's your problem? The radix point?

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kenzo25, normally to avoid huge Model scaling problems ...it's best to set a convenient 00 elevation somewhere below the lowest topo elevation based on the contour intervals.

For example, if the contour intervals are set to 10, then the lowest base for the model would be contour 00 ... with all subsequent contours laid out in increments of 10 above it.

Then you simply declare that the 00 Elev = MSL+( the actual elevation above Mean Sea Level ).

This procedure avoids the large and un-useable (FF) : 56,2000, structural elevation issues.

It also compresses the Model space into only the working contour elevations ... and ... not the contours of the entire friggin mountain.

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Not possible in Finland - or even Australia. All levels must refer to MSL (and all x/y -coordinates to the origin of the National Mapping Grid.)

This is, mind you, hugely inconvenient and counter-productive... If the site is even some 400 metres above the sea level, the z-values are difficult to understand and the poor surveyor need to translate them.

A datum, a datum, a kingdom for a datum!

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:) well...eheh.. one 10th of a millimeter wasn't intentional..

the problem, Petri, as i don't know what's the best way to work!

i'm trying to put my model (slabs and floors, etc) with the insertion point at 56,2m height - witch corresponds to the real topographic height of the building's implantation.

The result of my endeavour is that the site model appears with the surface at the "real" height, and my model (slabs, floors, etc) doesn't appear at the 56,2m high, but way below.

i would like to have my house in top of my site model..

thanks! :)

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i wrote the last message unaware of the last 2 replies..

islandmon:

by saying "Then you simply declare that the 00 Elev = MSL+( the actual elevation above Mean Sea Level )." you mean a textual note in the layout right? or that's some obscure and hidden vectorworks command?

By the way:

We in Portugal now have to give our projects in dwg format to some cityhall's, with the topographic info in the right coordinates, in order to get the licenses checked and approved. (i yould like to know why a copyrighted format is required in a public service! grrr...)

So,

That's why i was working in this way, but i can adapt! :)

Thanks once again!

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(i yould like to know why a copyrighted format is required in a public service! grrr...)

Indeed. They are acting against the EU legislation - or at least the intention of it.

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you mean a textual note in the layout right?

In the old days it was considered sufficient to annotate the drawings with

a properly formatted textual note next to the scaled elevation benchmarks.

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Was it? I've been in this game for over 30 years and have always needed to show levels relative to the MSL. Well, whatever: these are the latter days.

Authorities are starting to have 3D models of the built environment & infrastructure - and even of planning controls (such as envelopes) and they expect that they can just plonk in the model of an application and consider its merits and ramifications.

The Authorities cannot have different rules for softwaretically-challenged architects, who instist on using a program that makes it practically impossible to work in real world coordinates (eg. VW).

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Islandmon,

You may need to rename the image and remove the ">" from the name. I don't think the message board likes that character.

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It's an euphemism for "architects who cannot afford professional software or who are just cynical, ie. know the price of software, but not the value of it."

In these latter days we can't call short people short but vertically challenged, so I guess we can't call VW users cheapskates or tightwads, not even stingy.

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kenzo, set your model layer z value to 56.2 m. Then you can work on it with a "datum" of zero relative to the layer, and stack layers and layer linking will show it at the absolute height you desire. It looks as though your model setup should have done that for you, but since the results don't look right, go into the layer and look at the layer z values to check.

I do agree strongly with Petri's request for a better system of setting a datum. I've always thought Archicad had the better idea - you can toggle between viewing objects relative to a user-defined z value datum and absolute z value.

Islandmon, by now you are probably shaking your head over the silly refusal of EU folks to use a proper decimal point! (Just a joke - wait! Ow! Ooof! Stop!)

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Islandmon, by now you are probably shaking your head over the silly refusal of EU folks to use a proper decimal point!

According to Wikipedia,

Countries where a comma is used to mark the radix point include:

Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada (French-speaking), Costa Rica, Croatia, Cuba, Chile, Colombia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Guatemala, Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both separators officially), Macedonia, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, South Africa (officially, but dot point is commonly used in business), Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam

whereas

Countries where a dot is used to mark the radix point include:

Australia, Brunei, Botswana, Canada (English-speaking), Hong Kong, India, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Korea (both North and South), Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Nigeria, Pakistan, People's Republic of China, Peru, Philippines, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Thailand, United Kingdom, United States (including insular areas), Zimbabwe.

So, let me see... Ah - there are a couple of civilized countries in the latter group: Israel and Japan.

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For me the confusion came from the use of 4 decimal places ie. to 0.1 of a mm (1/250th of an inch). Conventional building to that accuracy is not possible so I am not sure why kenzo25 chose to do it that way.

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So, let me see... Ah - there are a couple of civilized countries in the latter group: Israel and Japan.

Really, Petri, surely you would agree that Singapore is a civilized country as well.

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For me the confusion came from the use of 4 decimal places ie. to 0.1 of a mm (1/250th of an inch). Conventional building to that accuracy is not possible so I am not sure why kenzo25 chose to do it that way.

thank you Mr. mike m oz ... precise and to the point of the matter ...

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