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Does detail view of parent drawings work in VW 2008


greenmeadow

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I bought VW12.5 with the belief that detail views of parent drawings could be used to compose new sheets with details views of those parent drawings. We all found out that this was really not the case and that all traditionally drafting conventions had to be abandoned to suit the VW program. This did not prove to be sustainable ...no one in the office is now using that feature. Does 2008 have the ability to "cut" larger scale details from parent drawings and show them on another sheet that is composed of other layers as well.

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Referencing, too. When did we get it - 1999 or 2000?

Anyway, I'm sure that at least most "traditionally drafting conventions" need to be abandoned when starting to use VW. In fact I think that's the fundamental reason & idea...

It'd be interesting to know what is "that feature" no-one is using.

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I find it really intesting that VW gets dimissed as not being able to do a feature when "grenmeadow and we" do not seem to have spent a lot of time to learn how do what the advertised features are capable of doing

there is also no mention in greenmeadows' posting of where he is coming from and, what they consider to be traditional drafting convention (maybe autocad???)

if greenmeadows and his band had looked into some training they would have found out that in VW:

drawing is mostly done on a design layer at a predetermined scale in a first file;

that information can then be layed out for printing on a sheet (always 1:1 scale) using viewports (which can be scaled and controlled via layers and classes and other such as view)

a second file can then be referenced into the first file using

WGR - (workgroup references) and can be inserted in a sheets or new sheet in the same file.

the VP's can also be annotated using the annotations feature of a VP - the VP can be scaled and the Advanced properties can control line weights etc.. useful when doing detailed drawings.

and WGR can be linked via LayerLink to create a drawing from multiple sources

so do not dismiss VW until you learn all the features that usually gets you where you need to be in the world of CAD.

VW is a program rich with features that takes years to learn if you want to learn it all. even after 10 years - I learned a feature of a tool which I had not yet fully explored.

so if you have specific details about somethigng you tried

we may try and help - but if you are only going to complain about generalities you will be on your own and you will have wasted your money on VW

my 2 cents

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1. Obviously cbaarch does not have a professional practice. I certainly would not want to hire a draftsman or continue with a CAD program thats requires "years" to learn. "Years to learn" at our hourly billing rate amounts to 100's of thousands of dolllars.I didn't even get my employeees trained of 12.5 and now we move on to 2008.

2. No one at the VW MAC World booth last year could demonstrate the features of VW Architect and that was true of MacWorld 2006.

3. Ultimately the purpose of Architecture construction drawings is to convey information to contractors. The construction industry moves slow. Whimiscal IT experiments result in oddly formatted unfamilar drawing style that do not communicate effectively.

I had windows show up at a job with only some of them glazed. VW has never had a competent pattern hatch for glass ( depeneding on the object position it might not show up) Traditionally a few diagonal lines symbolize glass...I learned that in in high school drafting class. So the windows that lacked the hatching were sent to the job without glass.

Having a detail plan ( that is interactive with the parent) and actual details of different scales ( not just dead views of them) composed on the same sheet to explain that plan is not asking for much. It is the way one designs a project and it is the way contractors need to see info to build it. VW12.5

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

greenmeadow,

1. If you had windows arrive at a jobsite unglazed, I believe that =may= be a problem with the window schedule, (or more likely, the contractor), rather than the hatch used on an elevation.

2. I can't speak to the exact staffing of MacWorld, but I do know we consider it more a "consumer" show than a "professional" show (such as AIA or others), and this may have affected the staffing. I do agree that any salesperson should be able to competently demo any of the products to an interested end user.

3. VectorWorks' viewports provide a very flexible way to provide live detail views. They do not take years to learn. With sub-features such as crops, annotation groups, viewing overrides, and advanced viewport options such as lineweight, arrowhead, and text scaling, we'll put our detail plan capabilities up against anyone's.

I don't know how you've trained on VectorWorks. There are of course several methods, and different people learn different ways. But I can assure you that "live" detail plans are one thing that VectorWorks does very well, and has only been improved with VectorWorks 2008.

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1. Obviously cbaarch does not have a professional practice. I certainly would not want to hire a draftsman or continue with a CAD program thats requires "years" to learn. "Years to learn" at our hourly billing rate amounts to 100's of thousands of dolllars.I didn't even get my employeees trained of 12.5 and now we move on to 2008.

2. No one at the VW MAC World booth last year could demonstrate the features of VW Architect and that was true of MacWorld 2006.

[snip...]

Having a detail plan ( that is interactive with the parent) and actual details of different scales ( not just dead views of them) composed on the same sheet to explain that plan is not asking for much. It is the way one designs a project and it is the way contractors need to see info to build it. VW12.5

Greenmeadow,

1. It sounds like you are trying to twist things. CBArch said it would take years to learn ALL of VW. I believe that to be true of any advanced program, Excel, Word, Photoshop AutoCAD. VW is no different. The important factor is how long it takes to learn enough to be productive.

2. I was at both MacWorld 2006 and 2007. I know for a fact that their were people there who could have demonstrated/explained any aspect of Architect you might want. David Phillips, a user from Fresno spent almost the entire week in the booth. Juan Almansa, one of the top tech support people for NNA solved problems for many people and did nearly constant demos. There were at least 4 sales people doing on-going demos and on-on-one sessions. I spent almost 2 days in the booth. Any of us or the other 6 people NNA had at the show would have been glad to help you.I suggest that you either A. where there at a very busy time, when no-one was available to help you, or B. you are talking out your arse.

3. Details and plans on the same sheet with live links are available in VW12. They are called sheet layers and viewports. Yes, it is one additonal step to edit, but for output purposes you have exactly what you are asking for.

Pat

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cbaarch does have an architectural practice and much more than basic knowledge when it comes to VW

we have been very productive in VW in short order but we have not fully used the full capabilities of the software because it does not work with our work flow methodology.

so stating again,VW has very good and very extensive sets of tools that can be used for single practioners to large groups of users. To get the most dollar value from the program training is essential just like any other software.

and as for the slashes in a window that is so a handdrafting method (I have direct knowledge having hand drafted for 10 years) you need to find new methodology to show windows - the designers prefer gradients/renderings whereas the techies prefer patterns/hatches.

as for glazing not showing up on a job site; obviously nobody specified the glazing with such information as clear or tinted (what percent) or mirrored with info on which side of the lite the mirror needs to be on and if it is single or double glazed with or without argon gas with/without low E coating

dashes on a window in an elevation gives nothing about the latter or if the lite is a spandrel panel with a whole new set of specs such as tempered or laminated, the insulation value with a full galvanozed pan or a foil backing...................we do window types for such and exercise and then reference the windows to a specifications manual.

AND

shop drawings were obviously not submitted to the architect/designer for review and approval before the order was placed if glazing was missing. Needless to say the line of communication was broken between the contractor and the architect

cheers

Conrad

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I had windows show up at a job with only some of them glazed.

Good grief.

1. If the shop drawings showed glazing and the supplier didn't glaze them - fire the supplier.

2. If the shop drawings showed unglazed windows and you approved them - fire yourself.

In either case, don't blame the frickin' software.

V-G.

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When a contractor shows you your own drawings with some of the windows hatched and some with the windows that "look" unhatched because of a flaw in the CAD program there is not much you can say. I have lost cases with less merit in regard to drawing inconsistency. The glass for the windows met the specification and was on the job but the contractor thought for reasons beyond his understanding certain windows that were not hatched by the program were to be field glazed. Sh--- does happen. I have had contractors paint the "rendered shadows" and build the diagonal door swing symbols shown on elevation drawings. A colleague had a contractor built the north arrow shown on the site plan.

I bought into VW when it was MiniCad because of its graphic capabilities. In those days other CAD programs had no graphic capabilities at all. AutoCAD did not even have Fonts. MiniCad worked on MACS too. As an Architect working in the USA I am having more and more issues with the non-conventional direction of VW. Drafting is a system of conventions at least in the USA. No one I have ever talked to at VW has ever heard of "AIA Architectural Graphic Standards". In its tenth edition ( Wiley) it is pretty much our bible but I need to go back to VW 10 to have some understandable, conventional symbols. I know tons of work must go into 3D aspect of VW now but no professional 3-D illustrator I hire will use it and no WIz Kid we hire will use it for 3-D renderings yet the 2-D aspects of the program are becoming more cumbersome not less ..training more difficult not less. This is no progress as I define it.

VW

Edited by greenmeadow
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The glass for the windows met the specification and was on the job but the contractor thought for reasons beyond his understanding certain windows that were not hatched by the program were to be field glazed.

Like I said, who approved the shop drawings? And did the contractor have a phone? Did you you do field review?

I have had contractors paint the "rendered shadows" and build the diagonal door swing symbols shown on elevation drawings. A colleague had a contractor built the north arrow shown on the site plan.

Well.......my cousin's friend's sister's dentist's son was parked with his girlfriend one night. They heard on the radio that an escaped lunatic with a hook on one arm was loose. The young gal was scared and wanted to leave, so the lad took off. When he got home and went around to open the door for her, the lunatic's hook was hanging from the door handle.

This and other urban legends (including contractors building north arrows) are available at: http://www.snopes.com/

V-G.

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