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Bob at GDA

Vectorworks and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard

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It does seem like there is a lot of frustration with the issue generally and it would be nice to at least have a timetable to make sure that the 12.5.2 users are actually being considered as important.

We have a mid sized office and upgrading to vw2008 is a very big commitment that deserves the right timing. Luckily for us we upgraded one machine for testing prior to updating to Leopard, however, as it effects my daily life I am rather frustrated as you can imagine.

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Ahh... You are here, too - not only there! Maybe also everywhere?

If you can't live without Leopard, I don't see how you can live with superseded and functionally inferior VW 12. Moving to Leopard would seem to be a big commitment, too, but obviously your firm makes its money from the use of operating systems, not the use of applications.

Right. VW 12.6 for Leopard might be warranted - but not for free! It would also be rather pointless: the new features of VW 2008 are well worth the small price. You don't need them? Fine. But you do absolutely need the features of Leopard?

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The issue has been truly discussed to death. Here, there and everywhere. I have nothing new to contribute and, with all due respect, neither do you.

Leopard = get the upgrade.

No upgrade = don't get Leopard.

Well, unless you can successfully argue with Mr. Apple that you are entitled to a free OS upgrade because paying for one "is a very big commitment that deserves the right timing." Hey, maybe you get free new Macs, too!

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The contribution of Melshimber is contributing to us all inspiring NNA to update 12.5.2. For many that is interesting, saving money, rather serious money if you have more than a few employers. The majority of apps on Leopard works fine but VW seems to have serious bugs.

As I have switched to Leopard and VW2008 I can recommend the switch very much. The added functionality in VW2008 and the new features in Leopard are absolutely great. I am in the middle of a project and am very happy with my decision.

Apple does not sell Leopard stating you should wait half a year for installing it and neither did NNA for users of 12.5. I feel NNA could have been a little more helpful in providing info while testing 2008 and Leopard in relation to their previous versions. After all, the largest group buying Leopard is probably still on 12.5. It makes me feel some marketing was involved in the very late exposing of 12.5 incompatibilities.

Petri, other than trying to let people know you think of them as stupid you haven't contributed any positive, interesting or actual worthy piece of information here.

Since you have no experience with Leopard or VW2008 or the combination with VW12.5 this is clearly not the thread for you.

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Dear me. NNA should have - two years ago - warned that VW 12 may not work with a possible future Apple OS.

Since you have no experience with Leopard or VW2008 or the combination with VW12.5 this is clearly not the thread for you.

What? I'm using VW 2008.

But you are right, too: a thread dedicated to "MiniCAD 1 should work with Leopard" is not for me. However,

As I have switched to Leopard and VW2008 I can recommend the switch very much. The added functionality in VW2008 and the new features in Leopard are absolutely great.

Good onya, mate! So, what's the problem?

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Hi Francois,

I'm sorry it was your time lost here. Your warning however may have saved others from upgrading their OS before the box with VW 2008 arrived. Fortunately you had already ordered the upgrade.

I'd like to thank you for immediately sharing the info rather than sitting on it.

I agree with you that there is a substantial possibility NNA knew about the problems a few weeks before Leopard was released. In their defense I must state that even they only had a developers version and not the final release. Also, their main concern was, of course, VW 2008. Since their new version VW 2008 was scheduled before the release of Leopard I can imagine NNA thought they were safe to worry slightly less about VW 12.5.2.

Thanks again,

Gerard

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I can imagine NNA thought they were safe to worry slightly less about VW 12.5.2

Oh, indeed! Why would they have worried about two years old software?

If either of you are architects: would you, for free, redesign a building, years after you got the building permit, because someone has meanwhile set up new urban design guidelines?

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Don't make the assumption that NNA knew about the problem. For those who aren't aware, Apple is FAMOUS for making last minute changes to their OS leading up to the public release, often leaving developers in the lurch. The problems that have arisen with VW12 and Leopard may have simply been unavoidable.

NNA has a proven history of doing the right thing with respect to solving these issues.

V-G.

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I am a fan of Vectorworks and support NNA for their good work on this great CAD application. As I wrote before, they must have been unaware of the problems a few of their users must have walked into. Obviously those, among me, where annoyed. Hopefully NNA will sort it out for those who still need some time to update to VW13.

I am new here on this forum and did not know about the "Petri problem". Thanks to the forum members for the warnings I got and I will ignore Petri's post in the future.

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Here's another voice in the wilderness asking NNA to please put some energy into 12.5 and Leopard. I will be migrating to VW13 in the foreseeable future, but probably not until '08. It is called Vectorworks 2008, after all, not 2007! ;)

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Big problem with VW 2008 and Leopard, just installed both, fresh install, all new, saving files is ok but not exporting, trying to export a file to dxf, dwg, image file, etc... is not working...

It seems that the "save window" tries to save the exported files inside the vectorworks app (looking inside vw... "show package contents/contents/MacOS/..." i found the exported files an folders with no use, all were 0k) no matter i stated to export them to another folder in my desktop...

And as usual, c4d export doesnt work either...

-

p

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no problems here with export, just tried and getting good dwg en pdf's.

I had a problem with the dwg/dxf and pdf export menu items showing up in gray and had to delete and assign those plugins again in the workspace editor.

good luck, if it works for me on my laptop I am sure you can as well.

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Since I started this thread and it seems to be getting a life of its own, I feel I need to state a couple of things.

First, I love the talented people at NNA. They produce one of the finest software packages I have worked with. No, actually, it *is* the finest software package I have ever worked with.

Second, I feel they handled this transition badly. A notification to users outside of this forum was warranted. Everybody makes mistakes.

Hopefully a reasonable solution will be found. NNA is not expected to provide us with free solutions forever but they are expected to support their user base through transitions like this. Maybe a modestly priced update would be in order since they probably have a good idea of what they have to fix after fixing '08. This still won't appease the most recent purchasers of 12.5.2. Consideration should be given to giving them a free upgrade of 12.5.2. I have no clue about what the cut-off date would be. Somewhere between a customer being mad as hell and just perturbed.

Still, with all the trouble this has caused users, you have to admit that VW is one hell of a solution for lots of things you have to get done everyday.

BD

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Bob,

A post was also posted to our home page, linking to the Knowledge Base article, as all technical bulletin's are handled. In addition, all user listserv's were also alerted of this.

As you can see from the Mac Fixit article, there were many last minute changes to Leopard that impacted compatibility.

Until the final version of an OS is available, it's challenging, if not impossible to accurately comment on compatibility with a software. This is a pretty standard protocol for all software vendors, not just VectorWorks.

As per the tech bulletin, the engineers are working on a way to address VW 12 with Leopard. Please stay tuned for information as it becomes available.

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Can I have MiniCAD 7 for Leopard, please! I have some old files to access & convert. I don't think any later version can open MC 3 format.

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When we save vectorwork 2008 files with Leopard onto a backup drive they become inviisible - can you suggest anything?

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Katie,

My point was that I felt an email similar to the one sent by Linda Carmody regarding VW 2008 should have been sent regarding issues with 12.5.2.

Good luck with sorting it out and thanks for your efforts here.

BD

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For the sake of others could people stop implying that VW 2008 works well with 10.5.

I'm not blaming NNA for the fact that last minute changes to leopard broke compatibility with VW2008, but I don't understand why this KB page:

http://kbase.nemetschek.net/index.php?ToDo=view&questId=153&catId=23

still exists. Leopard is out, NNA is aware that there are problems, they are working hard to fix them, where is the honesty?

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pwb2103

exactly what problems are you seeing between VW2008 and OS 10.5? Or is it a general complaint because they are not definitively saying there won't be problems?

I have used 2008 & 12.5.2 on Leopard, and while there are visual issues on 12.5.2 it works, and it works just fine. I have yet to have any un-resolvable issues with 2008 because of OS 10.5

If you have something specific that is widespread about incompatibilities between MacOS 10.5 and VW 2008, by all means bring it up. Discuss it, so that one, you can get help from other members of the board that may know how to solve it, or we can get attention from NNA and they will ask for a bug submit so they can get their engineers working on it.

if you make your living from your equipment, do not use untried tools. If you need to buy a new computer, there still exist, and will exist for the foreseeable future models that can and will run 10.4.x

For the life of me I do not understand the exasperation with software and operating systems not performing flawlessly. Everybody wants to bring up the car as a metaphor. "I would never put up with a car that stopped moving... wouldn't start even though I just bought it... made me disassemble it and put it back together for no apparent reason... on an on"

I agree, I want my car to start. I want it to continue to run. I expect consistency in it. Why would I expect less out of my software? Well in the end, it is this little nugget. I have been using personal computers since 1979. back when the storage device was a cassette player,and the display my TV. That is less than 30 years ago.

In 1979 less than 5% of the households owned Personal computers, businesses weren't significantly higher in adoption. Care to take a guess at percentage of ownership of cars was? 1985 there was 554 cars per 1000 people, very close to one per household. By then cars had been in families hands since since the 1920's. Is it any wonder our cars work better than our computers? Go look at footage of what those early years in automobile development, how flawless and perfect those early models are.

I think it is easy to forget that we are in the very early stages of developing this computer technology. It is easy to forget since they are so integrated into our lives. I am not suggesting that these developers of technology shouldn't perfect their craft, like the automotive industry the ones who don't will get weeded out, either by better products or deeper pockets. But if you made your living in a car back then you bought what worked, not the newest, or most advanced untested model.

Apply the same logic here.

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pwb2103,

I would suggest you start another thread with this subject. This one has been up for quite a while and is really a different topic so the people that need to hear your message may not be reached by putting it here. I was not aware that 2008 had issues and I think it important that you let people know.

Thanks for your effort in trying to do so.

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I have VW 2008 running on Leopard. It has its problems, but no worse than 12.0 had. So I'd say it runs well on Leopard. Better than 12 anyway. I have 2008 running now for a few weeks on Leopard and experienced 1 crash.

I'll bitch NNA about every bug I see, you can trust me on that one. I have reported afew already. But in general I am quite happy about VW 2008.

Gerard

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Gerard,

Thanks for the feedback to all of us. I would still suggest you guys and gals that are running 2008 on Leopard start a new thread for this subject to reach the appropriate people.

From what I have read I think some of the problems are stemming from machine differences. Some have good experiences and others not but I don't have 2008 to allow me to give any good information. That is why yours is so important.

Thank you for it.

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