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v13 vs. v12 wall components and colour attributes


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Answer me this: what problem is going to be created by adding use "Class Style" to the style, line and colour drop-down menus in the Component Attributes window?

1. That's 3 clicks to set 'use class style' for each component.

2. When you override things in a viewport, you can only override by class, so either you use class style for your components, or don't - you have override capability, or you don't. If you set anything manually off-class, you lose the ability to control it in a viewport.

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1. That's 3 clicks to set 'use class style' for each component.

But I didn't suggest removing the current check button for overall setting.

2. When you override things in a viewport, you can only override by class, so either you use class style for your components,

Yes and I want to use one Class, not one for each line thickness.

If you set anything manually off-class, you lose the ability to control it in a viewport.

Exactly, which is why I don't want to do that.

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Here's your file with the same structure, and the same visibility in 2008.

Can't download.

It looks the same in 12 and 2008. Although, because the components are not classed, (I am hearing you don't want to add more classes to the drawing class list) you will not be able to control component visibility or graphic properties in viewports. You will only be able to change the attributes of the pen lines.

Then it doesn't look the same. But at least you've released that we've lost a capability we had in v12.

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Christiaan,

You have not lost capability you had in 12. You still have that capability. (I just emailed you the file)

However, by limiting yourself to that capability of 12, you are choosing not to use wall component classing which gives you more flexibility than VW 12. This decision also means you are choosing not to take advantage of component visibility and component-by-component overrides.

So the wall style looks and acts the same as VW 12.

If you choose to use capabilities of VW 2008, you don't have to use a separate class for each wall component. There are components that can share a wall class. You can also set a component to only use the pen class settings, and let the fill be managed by the component definition. With this, you get exponential functionality never possible with VW 12. Likewise, you can set the left and right pen individually, with or without class attributes. You can also set the file independent of the line with or without class attributes. On top of that, you have the flexibility to control the component visibility in viewports.

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I don't understand the purpose of the question.

You have that function in 2008.

Image 1 shows the class attribute of a component edit

Image 2 shows the class attribute option for the overall wall (outer boundary settings)

Image 3 shows the wall styles dialog

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I may be understanding this now, although I needed help to get there. It was certainly not clear to me.

Do you want a subset of the Attributes palette in the attributes options for walls and components in their editing dialogs?

I don't see how that's more successful, especially for new users who do not ascertain the various graphics/icons in the Attributes palette in the first place, than having a check mark option and color / pen pickers.

I, personally, feel the layout of editing attributes for walls/components to make more sense than a sub-set of the attribute palette.

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I don't know what the question is, but the answer could be Class Overrides in Wall Styles a la Viewports. Slightly enhanced, though, to allow for different line weights on different sides of a component.

From BIM-perspective, one has a class for any material used in the building. However, one may not want to show them in the same way in walls as elsewhere; nevertheless, there should be only one class for bricks, only one for mortar and so on.

(Not yet had the time to check wall styles in VW 2008, so I may totally misinterpret the question & the situation.)

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I agree with Christiaan here. We do this all the time and the capability has been lost in 2008. I can see how it happened - in the desire to add classable wall components, I believe the hidden capability in VW12 was lost.

I'd vote for bringing it back. Adding multiple classes to achieve what was previously possible with a single class is not the best solution IMO.

V-G.

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VG - you can do this, if you use a separate class for components over the overall wall class. The overall wall class sets the attributes of the boundary / perimeters, and you can class the wall components which can have a class override using a color just like the external wall perimeter.

You can do it in 2008, but you have to use at least 2 classes for the overall wall and wall components.

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You don't have to Class your wall components. You can choose None or Wall Class. That will give you behaviour pretty much as it was in VW 12.

Having separate Classes for Wall Components is an option which can be used where people need additional functionality:

- To switch off the visibility of particular components in some situations.

- To have control over the appearance of components by editing the Class (meaning you can change the appearance of the same component type in several wall styles in one edit).

- To return discrete quantities for the components of a wall.

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Well, as far as I see, there is no loss in functionalety.

The problem is that Christian want the following:

Use the pen wieght and fill he chooses for his wall, but let the color be the color from the class.

At the moment I see from the dialogs, you can only let them all be from the class, or choose them yourself.

So basicly, Christiaan wants more flexibility then there is now. I must say this would be a great improvement.

But there is no functionallity lost like Katie explains.

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You don't have to Class your wall components. You can choose None or Wall Class. That will give you behaviour pretty much as it was in VW 12.

No it doesn't because the component lines will be the same thickness as the wall's outer lines.

Having separate Classes for Wall Components is an option which can be used where ... To have control over the appearance of components by editing the Class

Exactly, therefore we've lost a capability we had in v12. i.e. to control component line colour by Class while controlling line thickness manually, without having to create extra Classes.

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VG - you can do this, if you use a separate class for components over the overall wall class.

Katie, I think you need to stop and read what is actually being said on this topic. In the very post you were responding to VG pointed out that creating a separate Class is not the best solution in his opinion.

Why then tell him he can do it with a separate Class? He clearly knows this already.

We just shouldn't have to resort to Classes to control such attributes. That's what Attribute controls are for!

I note that I've not been required to send you a chocolate fish or eat my hat!

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I still don't understand how this was possible in V12.

boxjoint, in the Edit Wall Style window you will see a list of components you can edit. At the top of this list is "Wall", which controls the outer lines and the overall Class of the wall. You can edit "Wall" to be one line thickness and then you can edit the other components to be a different line thickness. And all these lines can remain on one Class and therefore have their colour set by Class, negating the need to create extra Classes simply to control attributes.

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WALL ATTRIBUTES:

In VW 12.5 and VW 2008 you can set the wall attributes by class or manually. No change in behaviour except for the addition of a Class opacity option in VW 2008.

COMPONENT ATTRIBUTES:

- In VW 12.5 you can only set the component attributes manually.

- In VW 2008 you can set the component attributes manually or by class, and the components can be named.

If you don't want to separately Class them you can do that - choose By Class and set the Pen Class to . If you have the Wall attributes set to By Class then the pen size and colour attributes will be the same as that set for the Class of the wall. Ditto for the fill.

Edited by mike m oz
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