Symbols from 11.5 > 2008

[Ian Forbes]

Hi,

If this has been asked before, sorry. (Please tell me where the thread is!)

How can I "import" symbols from one version to another? Hopefully, its a case of "Dragging" them inside Windows Explorer from one to the other?

If not..... then why not? Why cant it be that simple?

Thanks,

[Christiaan]

Using v13 (v2008) open the v11.5 file that contains the symbols and Save As. This will convert the whole file to v13, including the symbols.

[Ian Forbes]

Hi Christian,

Thats not quite what I was after... but Thanks anyway!

I have a custom Folder, visible in W.E., that I'd like to drag over to 2008. (much like moving any other folder around in Windows).

There are over 100 individual symbols inside this folder..... so to place one of each in a standard file/drawing could be done but I'd rather just drag the folder over.

[Petri]

Ian,

Your problem arises from an un-VectorWorksian way of storing symbols. One is supposed to have symbol library files - in which symbols then can even be in folders - and one accesses the library files with the Resource Browser.

Batch conversion will easily process the files, but nevertheless, you should repent and abandon your old Autocadish way of working.

[Christiaan]

I concur with Petri. Batch convert your files (File > Batch Convert...), but, as noted, you're doing it the hard way.

[Pat Stanford]

I have a custom Folder, visible in W.E., that I'd like to drag over to 2008. (much like moving any other folder around in Windows).

There are over 100 individual symbols inside this folder..... so to place one of each in a standard file/drawing could be done but I'd rather just drag the folder over.

What you are actually saying is that you have over 100 individual VW files each with a single symbol in them.

Petri and Christian are giving you good information that will serve you well in the future.

My recommendation would be to bring all of the symbols into just a few library files before you convert to VW2008.

In VW11, do an Add Favorites from the resource browser and select all of the 100+ files at the same time.

Select each new "Favorite" in the Resource Browser one at a time and select Import. Save the file after each (or each few) imports. This file will now be your new library file.

Add this new Library file to your Favorites in VW2008.

In VW2008, you will have the option to export resrouces (symbols) to a library file, so after you convert to VW2008, you may never have to open that file again, just have it accessible to VW.

Pat

[Ian Forbes]

Well.... you're all "wrong".

A) NEVER used ACAD...... what I'm hoping to do is identical to regular Folder moving in Windows Explorer.

B) Its one "Folder" with 100+ symbols.... thats how is was give to me via USB stick. All I had to do was drag and drop it. It worked perfectly, first time.

C) No Pat.... please see the attached screen shots. (Note the 4th is actually 2-in-1, via photoshop)

D) Perhaps you all have answered the question..... that VW forces you into doing this convoluted, jumping through hoops, not make things User Friendly kinda way.

If "D" is true..... why??? If I can move, say an CD album, from one "My Music" to another "My Music 2008" just by Dragging, why do we have to "export"/"save as"/"convert" in VW?

Are things "re-coded" inside the App, so much that this is nigh impossible?

Thanks again,

[Guest]

Library files are version specific. In order to use resources in a file, such as symbols, the file has to be saved as the native version of VW.

Since you have the symbols saved as VW 11 files, the files storing the symbols first need to be converted to VW 2008 files.

This can easily be done with a batch convert. You can even choose the folder you want them to be converted and saved to.

It sounds like you want the library files not only converted, but also stored in the VW 2008 application folder. If this is the case, use the batch convert menu and set the "Destination" folder to the location you'd like the files saved to in the VW 2008 folder.

[Ian Forbes]

Ah... Thank You.

I'll have to fully digest the Manual Section on that..... I'll get back to everyone, once I've do so!

This is quite frustrating, really. Why make Resources Version Specific??? If a symbol has already been happily used numerous times in a previous version, why cant that "code" be "kept over" into the newer one?

After all.... we can all EASILY open a JPEG in whatever version of Photoshop (for example)we happen to be using. I dont have to go and "Batch Convert" all my shots into "Ps CS3", now that I have it.... I just simply open them!! No trouble at all.

In Pshop, a Brush is a Brush and a Shape is a Shape, etc.... regardless of which older version it came from, CS3 sees it without issue.

Thanks again for clarifying what the guys were trying to say!

[Christiaan]

This is quite frustrating, really. Why make Resources Version Specific??? If a symbol has already been happily used numerous times in a previous version, why cant that "code" be "kept over" into the newer one?

Great, so then we can have Windows-like backwards compatibility and all the instability and lack of innovation that comes with it.

[Ray Libby]

Ian,

A resource is an object in a file that you can access through the resoure browser. VW 12 files are not compatable with VW 2008. You must first convert the file the resource is contained in to VW2008 for the resource browser to recognize the file. The resources themselves remain unchange. So the resource isn't version specific, the file that contains the resource is.

[Ray Libby]

Christiaan, why don't you at least start a new topic for your Windows bashing instead of one totally unrelated. I use Windows by choice and I am very happy with it. So now I guess the next step is to tell me I lack vision and innovation.

[Cris with no H]

Ian, your questions mirror my own. I, too, believe any newer version of VW should be able to read and reach into the resources of any older version file. However, in doing so, an up-conversion is necessary and you would have newer versions of those symbols in your VW2008 file.

As for your words on how a jpeg is a jpeg and a Pshop file is a Pshop file...well, there's some naivette I'd like to divest you of. Do some poking around about the history of graphics files and you'll find that a lot of functionality is currently NOT implemented precisely to KEEP bringing you cross-version compatibility in various graphic file standards. JPG is not the same as JPG2000, for what it's worth; that was an aborted attempt at "updating" the file format. Not all programs can read and write it. So we lose it; but you lost functionality you didn't even know you might have had.

Same goes for PS. When you save a PS file, it generally asks or assumes you want compatbility levels going back a couple of versions. So it dumbs down the file. You can save certain elements only in CS3 files that can't be read in CS2. So VW is not unique in this.

And if this spins your propeller a little too fast, don't even look at the new pdf standard and the fact that, if you don't upgrade your Acrobat or Acrobat Reader in the near future, you won't be able to read what everybody else is sending out...

Cris Dopher

[Christiaan]

It's not unrelated Ray. The ability of Apple to innovate and improve Mac OS X so much faster than Windows over the past 7 years is partly related to Apple's decision to introduce new technologies that break backwards compatibility with old software.

Windows is like the Titanic partly because of the obsessive drive to avoid breaking backwards compatibility.

[Ian Forbes]

Ok..... JPEG might not be the best example (as that would equate to a full drawing) but my point still stands as far as Pshop Brushes and Shapes.

They are essentially "symbols" and whether they were made in Ver6 or CS3.... CS3 can read and use them all. (Yes... I know VER6 cant read CS3... I'm not asking for that.) Heck.... perhaps PS is doing that automatically, in the background (I seriously doubt it though!) "Drag and Drop" a new Brush Set from any Version is as easy as blinking.

Ray.... Thanks for the extra clarification. Still dont "get" the whole issue. Its still not User Friendly, having to go through extra steps to use what you already can happily enough.

A Brush is a still a Brush......

Thanks to All once again,

Edited October 13, 2007 by Ian Forbes

[Pat Stanford]

Based on the screen shot you sent, you don't even have to do a batch convert. You threw us all off track by talking about folders in Windows Explorer.

You don't havea folder in Windows, you have a single VectorWorks file (AVW-Tele....) that contains a bunch of symbol folders.

When you try to open this file in VW2008, it will automatically update everything in the file to the new 2008 standards. It will even ask you hwat to do about the name. You can either assign the old file the name with a VW11 appended to the end or append a 2008 to the new file.

As to your comment about Photoshop and file formats, the change in file formats is what allows VW to grow. Without a modified file format, we would not have Section Viewports, Cavity Lines in viewports, 2way worksheets, and many other functions.

VW2008 will just open the files and do the conversion automatically. When you use an old brush in CS3, is there any kind of conversion that is done? Can you take it right back out and use it in VER6? You can export back out of VW2008 if you need to get back to VW11, but you will loose the new functions.

Pat

[Ian Forbes]

"You don't have a folder in Windows, you have a single VectorWorks file (AVW-Tele....) that contains a bunch of symbol folders.

When you try to open this file in VW2008, it will automatically update everything in the file to the new 2008 standards. It will even ask you hwat to do about the name. You can either assign the old file the name with a VW11 appended to the end or append a 2008 to the new file."

OK.... So I can just "Drag" it over to 2008?? I'm not upgrading to VW2008.... I'm doing a whole, brand new install to Designer. There wont be any "update" process. '08 wont even know Ver11.5 is on the same Hard-Drive!

As to your comment about Photoshop and file formats, the change in file formats is what allows VW to grow. Without a modified file format, we would not have Section Viewports, Cavity Lines in viewports, 2way worksheets, and many other functions.

Ah.... thats an answer I can understand..... partly. Some amount of Backwards Comaptiblity should be possible though.

VW2008 will just open the files and do the conversion automatically.

Further to my first responce, how do I get them into 2008?

When you use an old brush in CS3, is there any kind of conversion that is done? Can you take it right back out and use it in VER6? You can export back out of VW2008 if you need to get back to VW11, but you will loose the new functions.

Yes, you can just move the Brush Set whenever, wherever you want and like. (To the best of my knowledge) As I said previously though, a CS3 Brush isnt backwards compatible. Perhaps there is some "behind the scenes" converting form older brushes to CS3, but PS is so fast, I dont notice it.

I realise that I'm start to labour a point here but I'm persuing this because if I'm having issues, then others are too. I'd like to have this clear in my own head, so I can help others.

Also, perhaps I should have included the following screenshot too!

Thanks,

Ian

[Petri]

I realise that I'm start to labour a point here but I'm persuing this because if I'm having issues, then others are too. I'd like to have this clear in my own head, so I can help others.

right you are! This is definitely something where "others" do not seem to need help in. They just open the file - now it is converted - and continue to work. They don't worry about "Windows Explorers", "folders" or "dragging" nor do they "philosophize" about "backwards compatibility".

I've done MiniCAD/VectorWorks support & training since 1994, to hundreds of people & tens of firms, so I think I know what I'm talking about.

[Ray Libby]

Ian,

Just open the file in VW 2008.

File menu> Open. The Open VectorWorks Drawing window comes up. Navigate to C:\Program Files\VectorWorks 11.0.1\Object Libraries, double click on AVW-TELAV SYMBOLS-2005 update.mcd. VW2008 will open this file with a dialog box that says "This file was created with an older version of VectorWorks. etc." You now have some options for the naming scheme for this file and future conversions. After opening the file (during which it is converted to the VW2008 file format) save it to where ever you want to keep your libraries.

[Ian Forbes]

Ray,

Thanks for that clarification.

I guess there is some confusion about Files vs Folders vs Symbols in my mind.

I dont think of a Symbol as a File, even if that is what it actually is. A File to me, is strickly an actual Drawing, in terms of VW. A Folder is where I'd keep that Drawing.

Thanks,

[Ray Libby]

Ian, check your Private messages. The link at the top of the page, My Stuff > My Messages.

[Ian Forbes]

Petri,

Well, excuse me for never having gone through this process! I'm not a "Power User" as you appear to be.

Excuse me for asking for specific, clear answers!

Excuse me for not wanting to "F up" my new install! I tried this once before, when moving from Ver9 > Ver11, without luck.

Good Grief!

[Petri]

I'm not a "Power User" as you appear to be.

Well, why do you then pretend to be one? Why can't you just let the program do its stuff? Why meander in & ponder on "Windows Explorers" and what have you?

Good Grief!

Precisely! Are you just that much of a "power user" that you can open a file?

[Ian Forbes]

Where in this entire Thread, have I EVER claimed to be Power User?

Thanks for the warm Welcome too by the way! This is my first thread here. FAR friendlier at the Lightnetwork.

Talk about getting the "Warm and Fuzzies"!

You didnt have to repsond.... in any way shape or fashion.... if this bored you.

Goodbye.

[Petri]

Repsonding anyway...

You made several references to how magnificently any other program - not to mention "Windows Explorer" (whatever CAD-program that is) - works. By deduction, I assumed that you are a Power User.