VW 2008 - Symbol Referencing buggy?

[Chris D]

Not sure if this is a bug or good old user incompetence..

In super duper VW2008, if I reference a symbol from another file, then amend that symbol in the other file, how do I update the referenced symbol?

Just updating the Reference in the org/nav palettes doesn't update referenced symbols - fine, it might be designed like that - but if I place another instance it DOES update.

While we're on the topic, Symbol Referencing seems to be the neglected sibling of the new Viewport Referencing. My complaints about the VW12 system went unheeded (sigh....all that time typing things into the Wish List...). It's STILL impossible to find out where the heck a referenced symbol is referenced from, or even to know that a symbol is referenced until you try and edit it. At the risk of exhausting my two-finger typing skills, here's what I'll add to the wishlist later:

HOW TO FIX SYMBOL REFERENCING:

1. OIP INFO

The Object Information Palette does not identify referenced symbols as such. These objects should clearly be distinguished as a separate object type: Symbol - Referenced when selected. The symbol name should also be in italics, like it is in the Resource Browser. The source file should be listed at the bottom of the OIP, like it is for viewport references.

2. SYMBOL DISPLAY

There is currently no way to visually distinguish a referenced symbol from an inserted symbol in the drawing area. How about a chain icon at the insertion point when selected.

3. DOUBLE CLICK

The old dumb feedback The Selection is Locked should be replaced by a dialog offering two options: Edit Source File, Break Reference & Edit

4. RIGHT CLICK

Add the menu item Update to allow manual updating of symbol references.

[Mark Farnan]

Hi Chris,

For your update problem, the first 2 things that come to mind are:

1. Did you save the source file before you updated? (Does the Nav Palette show it as out of date?)

2. Maybe there's a refresh bug? If you move the symbol that didn't appear to update, does it then suddenly update?

Regarding your four items:

1. You're so right. We'll look to do that.

2. That's a trickier one. Do we do that for all referenced resources? Does that run the risk of complicating the drawing for users who don't really care? Maybe just doing #1 above would be enough?

3. I agree that we can do better than a "Selection is Locked" message there.

4. We don't have that because there's currently no way to just update that symbol definition without updating everything else in the file. So the command would actually be "Update the reference to the file that contains this symbol definition." But your point is well taken - we'll think about how we might be able to address that.

Thanks for your thoughts here and in the Wish List Items area.

Mark Farnan

Core Technologies Manager

Nemetschek NA

[Cris with no H]

I like your ideas, Chris, but have to disagree on #2. I want things to look as they'll look when they print, not have a bunch of phantom objects all over my drawing. I use locus points sparingly for that reason and typically do not want to see associated dimensions' little red boxes, either. I think the OIP info is enough here - or will be when they update the object type as per #1.

Cris Dopher

"the OTHER Cris D"

[islandmon]

Any chance the sound feedback can be utilized to identify these referenced Resources ?

[Chris D]

Cris has a point about screen clutter, but it's nothing a Preference couldn't handle.

I think the visual feedback is actually one of the more important bits though, especially in a large office when trying to prevent users from bastardising standard symbols (which then can't be managed centrally) - if they've broken a link, it's easy to spot it.

[Chris D]

1. Did you save the source file before you updated? (Does the Nav Palette show it as out of date?)

Yup, saved it. Then updated.

2. Maybe there's a refresh bug? If you move the symbol that didn't appear to update, does it then suddenly update?

Nope, doesn't update on move, or on close & re-open. Only updates when your try and add a second instance of that symbol.

2. That's a trickier one. Do we do that for all referenced resources? Does that run the risk of complicating the drawing for users who don't really care? Maybe just doing #1 above would be enough?

Visual feedback is important in a heads-up way, rather than just in the OIP. I'd even like a floating tip when you hover over the link icon, with the name/path. As I said to Cris, the visual feedback could be turned off in preferences for those that like the minimalist look. In my opinion though, those offices making use of referenced symbols are likely to have some form of drawing standards in place, and probably a symbol library, and are likely to appreciate anything that makes the management of these resources easier and more 'apparent' to users.