VW 12.5.2 fillet tool fix?

[exocubic]

Robert has confirmed that the fillet tool in VW 12.5 is broken. Will there be a fix offered for those that choose not to upgrade to 2008? Or does a working fillet tool cost us $335?

[Robert Anderson]

If you're talking about me, I have confirmed no such thing.

[quigley]

Sorry but what's wrong with the fillet tool in 12.5? I use it every day. If the fillets don't "take" use the split only mode and remove the excess manually. I can assure you that filleting by the trim and split mode is rone to error in EVERY CAD system - even ?6500 softwares like SolidWorks have issues with this in certain cases. Point is there is always a workaround.

[exocubic]

Yes, Robert, I am talking about you.

And, in an email to me dated June 26 of this year, you said the following:

>Mark, your particular file poses some interesting issues for VectorWorks and

>how it deals with arc-smoothed polyline files. It's clear from the way

>you've described your problems online that you've experimented fairly

>thoroughly with the workflow to accomplish what you want, and in the doing

>you've hit on a precision bug (the one that is causing your large-radius

>arcs to vanish).

>As it turns out, this precision bug has already been fixed in an upcoming

>release, but that does you no good, because the upcoming release is

>available only to official beta-testers. The bug is that, when filleting a

>very large-radius arc with a small-radius arc, the fillet tool gets confused

>and deletes the wrong portion of the large arc. As you probably have seen,

>it doesn't happen on all vertices, only some.

>So let's try and work through a process that will solve your problem.

>1. If you have it on, turn off "zoom line thickness" preference in the

>Display tab of VectorWorks preferences. (Thick line display can mask the

>little pieces you'll need to delete in step 3 below.)

>2. Use the Fillet tool in the "trim-extend" mode to fillet all the corners

>possible (i.e. that don't cause the large-radius arcs to disappear.) When

>you have a corner that causes an arc to disappear, simply undo and make note

>of that corner (maybe circle it in red -- you'll come back to it.) But do as

>many corners as possible using the "trim-extend" mode, which is the fastest.

>3. Now change the Fillet tool to the "split" mode (the second option in the

>mode bar). Do the red-circled vertices and manually delete the "tails".

>(You'll have to zoom 'way in for obtuse angles.)

>4. Select everything and compose. (Delete any temporary markings first.)

>Now you should have shapes that will work with your cutter. I can discuss

>with you later (should you be interested) more about the idiosyncrasies of

>VectorWorks polylines and why you were seeing changes in shapes earlier. But

>for now, I hope this works for you.

>Sorry about the fillet bug, as I say it's already fixed for the next major

>release.

I think that last line eminently qualifies as a bug confirmation. I would also advise you to be aware of the tone of your reply, Robert. Implying that I am a liar is NOT "Polite and Professional".

Thanks for any futher clarifications you can provide regarding my question.

Edited September 14, 2007 by exocubic

[Robert Anderson]

A bug, yes. "Broken", no. To an engineer, "broken" means the tool doesn't work at all. Your problem was a "narrow and deep" problem that occurred in only very specific circumstances. If a tool works, oh, say, in 99% but not 100% of the cases it is passed, than we say it "fails" in certain circumstances. This may sound like a fairly technical distinction, but hey, that's language for you:

"'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'"

--Lewis Carroll, _Alice Through the Looking-Glass_

[exocubic]

My apologies for the poor choice of words. To a non-engineer, "broken" means "doesn't work right". Can I get an answer to my initial inquiry? Will the bug fix that has been implemented in the fillet tool for the 2008 release propogate in some meaningful way to a service release for VW 12.x, or is the only way to get the fix to purchase the upgrade? I'm only trying to weigh the ROI for my personal needs in regards to upgrading, not start a Petri-style pi$$ing contest.

[islandmon]

Exocubic, deserves credit from all Users for the discovery of a fatal but limited flaw that occasionally breaks the Fillet algorithm pursuant to the special circumstances described in Mr. Anderson's comprehensive "Bug response " email.

This topic is an excellent example of a productive and positively healthy effort by all.

Thnx

[compusam]

I too am curious about the fillet tool bug and whether it has been fixed in VW 13. This is not a minor bug, as some have suggested, but rather a major aggravation in terms of creating accurate geometries (driveway arcs, topo lines, etc.). I have found the fillet tool in VW 12.5 to fail approximately 50% of the time, not 1% of the time as some have suggested. Two of the first CAD programs available for the macintosh were MiniCad (VectorWorks 1.0) and VersaCad. I used VersaCad for many years with great success, but moved to VectorWorks about five years ago due to the strength of the 3D capabilities. VersaCad is still available and has been ported to OS X. VersaCad was, and is, a virtually bug free application and it handles arcs, curves, and fillets beautifully and it gives one options on exactly which fillet to accept (which VectorWorks does not). When VectorWorks fillets do not work (frequent) I some times export the geometry by way of DXF to VersaCad, create the complex geometries which VectorWorks cannot handle, then import the geometries back to VectorWorks. This is a bit of a pain, but it is easier, for me, than trying to create the complex geometric constructs.

I have ordered VW 13 and I hope the fillet tool has been fixed.

[jbrhwy]

Compusam, I have been using Vectorworks (MiniCad) since 1990 to design narrow, winding circulinear roads, driveways & trails & all designs are closed polylines with arc vertexes. Maybe 2% of 10,000 or more polylines created had problems in attempting to close them. I have been reporting my problems on this Board & to tech support for more than 10 years. My drawings use UTM coordinates (Northings with 10 digits & Easting of 9 digits), therefore they are long way from an origin of 0,0. I have been able to work around the problem by cutting the problem polylines, then pasting them in a new file close to 0,0 origin, where they can be correctly closed using the Reshape tool, copy, then paste the corrected polyline back to its actual location.

I use the 2D reshape tool only not the fillet tools. I would appreciate if you would elaborate on what you consider "creating accurate geometries" for driveways.

[Guest]

Bruce,

You should also submit bugs to bugsubmit@nemetschek.net. That will ensure they are entered in the database and resolved.

[jbrhwy]

Hi Katie

The bug was submitted by Robert Anderson on 1/16/07 10:59 PM - "I have entered this as a bug, indicating a specific failure of our offset tool. B056014 -On 1/16/07 10:59 PM".

Was it been resolved in 2008?, still a problem in 12.5.2.

[Robert Anderson]

In our bug database, the bug is marked as fixed for VW 2008. I have not personally tested it.

[jbrhwy]

Thanks Robert

Just waiting to hear back from Teri Young, the Canadian distributor, that the VW2008 DVD's have arrived.

[Cris with no H]

To answer your initial question, Mark: no, there will be no further maintenance releases of 12. You'll have to upgrade to 13 or live with the bug.

Cris Dopher