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former Revit user

user defined 'objects' ?

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Hello all,

I was wondering if there was any way to make your own customized, user-defined windows, doors, etc.? Adjustable in the database type format of the doors and windows and cabinets and such.

Either in VW12 or 2008.

thank you

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If you learn VectorScript, you can make pretty much anything.

Alternatively, you can use the NNA parametric, make the settings you need and then save the object as a symbol. Not as flexible but quicker and less knowledge required.

VG.

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It depends on exaclty what you mean. There are three possibilities/levels of difficulty.

1. If the Door and Window tools do what you want, create a door or window and then create a Symbol from it. From the Create Symbol dialog box click the Options... button. Check the box that says "Convert to Plug-In Object." The door/window with all of its settings will be available in the resource browser, but after insertion to the drawing, it will convert back to a door or window for further modification.

2. You can create your own symbols using 2D (for Top/Plan) and 3D (for other views) objects. This will cut a wall like a door/window depending on the insertion options you give the symbol when you create it. This will give you more control over the object, but you loose the adjustability of the object from the Object Info Palette.

3. You can write you own Plug In Objects in VectorScript (or using the SDK). This will give you the best of the two worlds above, but will required substantial time and a steep learning curve.

Pat

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Newbies in what respect? New to programming? New to Pascal in general & VectorScript in specific? New to VW and/or CAD?

With the prospect of creating great add-ons or improving automatically created scripts?

I don't want to sound negative, but I couldn't devise "a" VS course for newbies. Three or four different courses would be another kettle of fish.

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Probably with the prospect of being able to overcome some of the smaller issues that people often say on this forum could be solved by a little VectorScript knowledge. "Creating great add-ons"? Yeah, maybe, in the long term, if I can commit the time needed to learn to that level.

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Right. That level should not be too hard. Not beyond a user group. In fact, there is the VectorScript mailing list! Until I was unceremoniously expelled, I got very good advice there.

Nevertheless, you may not get a proper start in the Art & Science of programming there: what are variables and arrays, procedures and functions. OK - this function returns a Boolean. So?

In the good old days it was possible to learn from MiniPascal samples provided by Diehl Graphsoft. Now all the good stuff is protected and the generic samples are cryptic.

Pascal is definitely out of fashion so you probably won't find courses at your local Adult Education Institute or whatever those might be called in the UK or Kiwiland. However, if you take a course on Visual Basic, I believe you get the picture.

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Yes, Yes, Yes,

I'm not familiar w/ script/code and would like to learn it - I'm hoping learning it for VW will provide the groundwork for other programs I would like to learn where a solid knowledge of scripting is very useful, i.e. Flash, Catia, etc.

Anyway, to the question,

My current understanding of the primary difference between the two programs is the amount of effort required to set up an efficient work flow/presentation/modeling environment where one continues drawing/editing/designing in the three typical architectural views - (plan, section, elevation) but is actually constructing the 3 dimensional model.

Revit was initially conceived for this and won't allow you to 'draft' in the traditional sense, you must build, but you can layer drafting details over views, similar to annotations, so that not every screw need to be modeled. This allows you to physically construct the 3d model to the level of detail the project requires, in 3d, and then any additional details can be added over this framework.

As for the actual question,

One basically sets up reference planes and then dimension them. The dimensions then control/constrain the reference planes. You then model the actual geometry and constrain it appropriately to the reference planes. The dimensions can then be 'parameterized' using booleans and if,and,or,then, statements.

This is all done using 'palettes' or a database type interface where the names I assign to the dimensions are listed and I can simply change the values and stretch the object within the larger project file. Similar to the VW doors and windows and objects, it is just a lot easier to create your own user defined objects, from scratch and set them up with very limited scripting knowledge.

Long story short, my current impression is that VW requires considerably more expertise and time to set it up 'intelligently' to the level that Revit comes out of the box. So while it may seem more expensive, the time saved initially is certainly worth it.

Why am I using VW then? Job, Job, Job

My optimistic side tells me that I will learn something from this less than desirable situation.

Hope this answers the question somewhat, without offending any die hards of course!

Edited by former Revit user

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I experienced before that programs that made programming easy is not always good. In Revit, you'll have to make different kind of parametric windows or doors, while in VW you create 1 pio that does it all.

So it may be a bit harder (although it's very easy if you have some programming skill), it's more flexible and you'll get what you want in 1 pio.

I've seen a huge revit library of pio of windows. Why is it big? because of this limitation.

I'm sure that if you experiment with it, you'll see that VW offers more in this way.

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Hmmm, I'm listening,

Thanks for the advice too,

Yeah, there is a large library of objects, and then a variety of sizes for ea. object so....

If you have 1 file (called a family in Revit) that comprises say, a double hung window. You model the geometry and constrain it and give the dimensions logical names like width, height, etc. and then load that into the 'Master' model ie. the project file. From there you have a drop down list of the various sizs for that double hung window, 3040, 2640, etc.

There are then 'family' files for ea. different object such as, Awning window, slider, etc. This holds true for doors and any other object you have.

So yes, there are a considerable number of 'objects/files' but then again you don't have to pick through as long a list of options that you do when using the PIO's.

The reason for explaining the Revit process in such detail is to try and get an accurate comparison.

I would say a matter of preference between the two?

What one gains with Revit's pre-defined way of organizing the project could be considered a hinderance by those who want complete customization.

VW maybe has a stronger foundation w/ which to grow, so with a little work, a better program?

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There are 2 ways to create PIOs. Either with VectorScript, or the Vectorworks SDK.

VectorScript is probably better for getting your stuff up and running quickly, which is why I use it. I don't have the time to jump into the SDK, but think I would prefer it if I could have a week to geek out on it.

The VectorScript docs are here:

VectorScript Docs

You use the plug-in editor to set things up like your plug-in type, parameters and help text. Then you write a script that does all the heavy lifting/drawing. You can then bring the PIO into your tool palette with the workspace editor and try it out.

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So yes, there are a considerable number of 'objects/files' but then again you don't have to pick through as long a list of options that you do when using the PIO's.

Well, some pio's already in VW have a long list and are not always well designed on that matter. But if you make you're own, you can let parameters disapear when they are not needed.

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The primary differences between the two methods of creating unique objects then are:

Revit uses a graphical interface to construct and constrain the objects.

VW uses a scripting interface to construct and constrain the objects.

BTW, the same 1-in all PIO can be achieved in Revit but doesn't always make sense. This means you must construct the object w/ future unknown variables that will inevitably need to be updated and revised.

It is simply a matter of organizing. I have 1 window design w/ a variety of sizes. It isn't that bad. A window category, door, etc. Folders, organization?

My point is that from an architecture/design/intuitive thought process point of view, being able to graphically 'build' the PIO seems a much better approach than having to mediate fluid thought w/ a non-intuitive programming language. Once learned I assume it becomes relatively fluid but it still seems stifling.

All this being said I guess I'm on to learning that language which may inevitably change my current thoughts.

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You can also get Julian Carr's 'WinDoor' add-on which does what you want for a great variety of window / door types. Its all parametric, no scripting involved, does 2D / 3D, and creates schedules if required. Why reinvent the wheel and spend all your evenings and weekends learning VectorScript when you could be out having fun?!! :-) See

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All of these add-ons really add up,

just reiterating the point that initial investment isn't always what it seems.

This is for the argument that VW is more affordable for the 'small' budget minded firm!

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All of these add-ons really add up

WinDoor is less than $200, or was when I purchased it recently. Even it has problems, but doing your own PIOs would only be worth it in the context of a very large firm that is able to devote resources every year to updating them and keeping them functioning both backwards for legacy files and forward with new versions of VW.

What is it that you can't do with VW out-of-the-box?

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I agree with "former Revit user". Most users don't know VectorScript or don't want to be interupted in the design flow with it. Revit sounds like it has a better system. VW's window/door approach just doesn't cut it. I have to model each and every window.

Please, Nemetschek, do something like what "former Revit user" is talking about.

Thanks,

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Yeah, sorry for the un-informed 'add-ons' comment. I did see the price for the Windoor.

The comment came from a general impression (subject to change) I got from reading through the forums and seeing links from users to pay-only websites, much of if for tutorials though(which is standard) but also many scripts that help to extend the functionality. Not all adding up to a whole lot of money so....

The real point is that the majority of architects & architecture students out there have very little if any knowledge of code, and to offer that as the only point of departure from the norm 'library' seems.....

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