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Christiaan

Door PIO enhancements

Question

- Rebated door jambs

- Ability to show rough opening (i.e. move loci to suit frame+shim gap), so we can dimension the opening instead of the door frame.

-Ability to show ironmongery and trim in plan on Guide class to facilitate correct placement of doors, or something similar.

-Ability to show potential wall returns (finished), again to facilitate correct placement of doors.

See attached example.

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Constant refinements to the Door / Window PIO's are essential.

However, experience tells me that on most commercial jobs a Door subcontractor specializes in the installation of the doors & hardware.

Whereas, a Finishes subcontractor handles the trims & details... ditto for windows.

Why does this matter ?

These Professional Installers & Finishers determine the exact sizing of the rough openings in the field

regardless of what the "Lines on Paper" may or may not indicate.

So let's not sacrifice too much of our insanity over the specificity of the PIO's ; )

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These Professional Installers & Finishers determine the exact sizing of the rough openings in the field regardless of what the "Lines on Paper" may or may not indicate.

Regardless islandmon, we dimension to structural/rough openings, not door (or window sizes).

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We dimension to the outsides of the frames here in Australia, and leave it up to the trades people to determine what installation gaps they need (if any).

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I was recently preparing a set of panel layout drawings to send to a structural insulated panel manufacturer. I found the inability to show or dimension to the rough openings of doors and windows to be hugely inconvenient. There are workarounds of course, but it seems logical to me that the PIO should have this ability.

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Given the uncertainty about exactly what brand of window and door we will end up with, I always dimension doors and windows to centerline, and provide a schedule that gives the (at least hoped-for) unit dimensions. Here in the US residential / small commercial market, the contractor always has a "better idea" (i.e., more convenient, more familiar, more profitable for the contractor - spoken as a former contractor).

However, even if we had certainty about unit sizes, I would still dimension to the center of the unit and refer the contractor to the window / door schedules for the actual frame sizes. Contractors commonly want to control their own shim space tolerances.

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We dimension to the outsides of the frames here in Australia, and leave it up to the trades people to determine what installation gaps they need (if any).

Given that we tend to deal in brick dimensions in the UK the opening is just what it is. The standard tolerance here is 10mm.

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I agree with Christiaan here. We dimension the structural opening, not the frame, and not the leaf. The current Dimension External Walls tool is pretty useless as well, for that reason. If I gave our bricklayers a drawing showing dims to centreline of opening, and then referred them to a schedule, I'd end up in the foundations.

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I agree with the center line dim, to schedule method.

On our schedule we clearly state that it is the Contractors responsibility to verify R.O. with manuf.

This has been typical in our practice of wood frame construction.

We do not want that liability of adding an additional consultant, (window/door manuf.) and verifying R.O. for the contractor to frame out to.

Interesting ideas here.

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If I gave our bricklayers a drawing showing dims to centreline of opening, and then referred them to a schedule, I'd end up in the foundations.

Remind me not to take up practice in the UK.

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Dimensioning to the rough opening is a timber framing thing because the doors and windows are inserted afterwards. A shim gap provides the necessary build tolerance. In our context we build the frames into the brickwork as we go so there is no requirement for a build tolerance. Different needs.

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Here in Finland we use standard dimensioning based on "modules" (M) of 100 mm. D09 is theoretically 900 mm wide (9M), including the frame. In NZ terms that 9M would probably be the rough opening: the actual width of the frame is 890 mm. (Frame & door are supplied as a component.)

Therefore, the door must be specified & tagged not by leaf size (as they would eg. in Australlia) but by standard (rough) size.

And then of course we have steel-framed fire doors and other things that do not exist in McMansions...

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This isn't about what is best practice, therefore there's nothing to agree with me about in this regard. Clearly there are different ways of doing it. I just want VW to be able cope with the way I have to do it.

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I think ultimately the best way to deal with this issue (and a lot of other ones) is to open the PIO code. People capable of localizing/customizing can step up.

Granted, it is possible to completely replace a PIO with a custom one, but but some of the PIOs are pretty complex. Replacing "Door" would be a lot of work.

It may be opening a can of worms (mostly from a support standpoint), but ideally the Nemetschek developers would spend more time working on core engine issues rather than PIO issues.

Just my 2 cents. I'm sure Petri would agree with me on this one. :-)

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Wezel, a thoughtful suggestion, but I myself would prefer a solution built into the software. Even if I had the time to fuss with customization, I have found that updating these kinds of things over and over again with new versions of the software is just uneconomic. Even excellent third party add-ons for VW suffer, at the least, from being behind the curve when it comes to updates.

Speaking of which, very tangentially, I wish that NNA would consider purchasing Info Editor and having it's author keep things up-to-date. This tool is now indispensable to me. And it has very interesting potential spin-offs when it comes to creating more controllable exported reports and interactive schedules.

Back to doors: it is known that the door and window PIOs are being rebuilt by NNA, and I hope that this and other suggestions (such as having the hinge centers be actually accurate with respect to trim thickness!) could be considered by the team. It would be great if Jeffrey Ouelette could post the features and improvements which are current candidates for implementation so that users could comment.

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