Stair Tool

[H. H. Furr]

I would like to be able to have a down arrow.

I think we used to have this in an earlier version of VW or MC.

[rDesign]

I second this.

The stair PIO should be smart enough to know for example that on the lower floor the stair arrow should say UP, and on the upper floor the arrow direction would reverse and say DOWN.

[Christiaan]

It does this already doesn't it, when you use 'overall height by Design Layer'?

I'd prefer that it gave the option for either or, because in the UK/NZ we always show the upwards direction.

What do you do, for instance, when you're doing multi-storey? You don't have a upper and lower floors, you just have mid-levels (as above, we always simply show the upwards direction).

[rDesign]

Not to hijack H.H.'s original wish for a stair 'down' notation, but -

I currently have a U-shaped stair PIO connecting two floors. It is set to use Overall Height from the layer elevations (set to 0' and 9') and the stair 'up' arrow shows the same direction for both the upper and lower floor plans. This seems wrong to me as from the second floor there is no stair going up, only going down. So if it should be saying 'down' I may be doing something wrong (which would not be hard to believe).

In the US were this a stair connecting three floors for example: the ground floor plan would show an arrow 'up'; the second floor plan would show both an arrow labelled 'up' and one labelled 'down' for each respective flight; and the third floor plan would show only a 'down' arrow.

That being said- I agree that it should be an option to show the notation correctly for your country standards.

[Christiaan]

This seems wrong to me as from the second floor there is no stair going up, only going down.

Sure, if you're actually standing at the top of the stair, but you're not standing at the top of the stair, you're looking down on it from above. The objective of the stair arrow is to show you which way the stairs go, not to help you pretend you're standing at a certain level, which is what you implicitly acknowledge when you put "up" on mid-level stairs.

[bc]

Christiaan,

It is the convention in the US to indicate stair direction per flight from the floor plan drawn. I probably don't understand your definition of multi-story.

Brits may have use for other means and certainly having only one arrow without words is simpler yet that is not how it is done here so I second the notion of it being optional which seems to be the point of agreement here. Not having this type of simple option is a big sore point for VW PIO's in general.

[Christiaan]

It is the convention in the US to indicate stair direction per flight from the floor plan drawn. I probably don't understand your definition of multi-story.

Well, think about a mid-level. You can go both up and down from the floor plan you're looking at. If you took this U.S. way of looking at it to its logical end you would draw both up and down arrows on a mid-level stair. Or is that what you're saying you do (per flight)?

so I second the notion of it being optional which seems to be the point of agreement here.

Yeah, I'm just taking the chance to have a dig at U.S. conventions, which often seem a bit baffling to me.

[bc]

Quote Christiaan, "Well, think about a mid-level. You can go both up and down from the floor plan you're looking at. If you took this U.S. way of looking at it to its logical end you would draw both up and down arrows on a mid-level stair. Or is that what you're saying you do (per flight)?"

Yes exactly. Here's a comparison (to borrow from your stair graphic from another post). I hope my JPGS are attached correctly.

I think the US method is graphically more tedius but obviously what I'm use to and perhaps "six of one, half a dozen of another". As alluded to above, I feel the US method is based on the way we have come to orient ourselves from the floorplan we're drawing on or looking at. It answers the question: what are the stairs doing from this floorplan? In the US we would answer that the stairs go up on this side and down on that side and in the UK you might say the stairs are going up on this side and coming up from below on this side. Correct? If so the UK orientation baffles me a bit but whatever. It's easy to agree that it should be optional...perhaps even to the point of amazement that it isn't that way from the git-go.

Edited August 30, 2007 by bc

[Dieter @ DWorks]

I find it confusing to see a down arrow. We here in Belgium always draw the up arrow, so we now how the stairs go up. We also draw the piece of stair higher then 1.5m above the zero point of the current floor dashed. So we now which stair is from the current floor and wich one is from the one below.

[bc]

Yes I merely borrowed Christiaan's graphic. If there were no stairs below I would tend to break the stair within the first run up and the remainder dashed so I could better show what might be below it on the floorplan but that is a different circumstance. Given your single up convention, I would prefer your method of dashing the upper portion.

This issue was explained to me way back in 1969 when I was told the floor plan was like a horizontal section through the building about 4 ft above the floor and looking down. Therefore one would actually see stairs going both up and down from that floor so those would be solid lines and hence that presentation...the dashed line being reserved for elements not seen: beyond or in front of the section.

I suppose that if the AIA decided to change to your method for the convention or if it somehow trended to that, I would be right on board. Hmmm, perhaps they already have and I am playing the game by the old rules.....

Edited August 30, 2007 by bc

[Christiaan]

Well, to be honest bc, I kind of like the up down arrow as you've posted.

[bc]

Well thanks, Christiaan.

I tell you what. Let's trade! Let's have the UK adopt the US stair convention and, in return, the US could go metric!!!

Hmmmm.

Not bloody likely, I'm afraid........what's it been now? 40 yrs?

[Christiaan]

I tell you what. Let's trade! Let's have the UK adopt the US stair convention and, in return, the US could go metric!!!

I could definitely agree to that.