Does anyone else know of this...

[clickityclk]

rounded rectangle with either symmetrical or proportional checked, at 10" x 10" and then tapered extruded to a height of 13.75" with the degree of 2.0 shuts vectorworks down immediately.

[fsung]

Works fine on my setup.

Can't really help troubleshoot without more info about your setup. How about providing some details on your setup? What version of VW? What OS? Processor & speed? Graphics card specs and driver version? Quicktime version? Does this happen only in existing files or in new ones, too?

[clickityclk]

Vectorworks 12.5; Dual 2 ghz g5; osx 10.4.9, geforce 6800 ultra. It happens in all new and existing files.

[Guest]

What OS .. what version of VW ... Is there an error message?

[fsung]

I'm running VW 12.5.1 on a 2.0 GHz G5 Dual with the same graphics card and OS X 10.4.7.

Two possibilities:

VW 12.5 was/is extremely unstable, and in fact, introduced bugs into VW that weren't present in 12.0 and 12.1. (I know, because I discovered three of them, and have confirmation e-mails from Tech Support and QA acknowledging that to be the case.)

The 12.5.1 update squashed a lot of the bugs in 12.5.0, so that may resolve the problem.

Another possible culprit is QuickTime. If you're running a version earlier than 7.1.3, update that as well. (The current version is 7.1.5.)

[clickityclk]

There is no error message vectorworks just shuts down. Vectorworks version 12.5.1 and OSX 10.4.1 Quicktime version 7.1.5.

[jfmarch]

hmmm... i just did it with no problems. i can render and rotate it. looks like a very neat slump test form...

[Guest]

When was the last time you ran disk utility?

[clickityclk]

never... I just ran the repair disk permissions, verify also. Went into vectorworks double-clicked the rounded rectangle tool entered 10" x 10" and symmetrical. Placed it in the file no problem, I then entered 13.75" in the height and 2 for the degree, it waited a couple of seconds then blink vectorworks gone.-- also tried different sizes it still shuts down.

Edited May 1, 2007 by clickityclk

[Guest]

Did you run verify first, then repair?

You want to get in the habit of doing this every time new software is installed or updated, including your OS. It's a good idea to run it every few weeks as general maintenance, too.

I just noticed you are running OS 10.4.1 - that could likely be the culprit.

I suggest updating before we try any further testing.

[clickityclk]

I apologize, 10.4.9 is my os. I am installing right now quicktime update 7.1.6 we will see if that helps.

[clickityclk]

I figured it out, though vw should not shut off like that . Input the corner dims and it works just fine on the double click of the tool. don't input the corner dims and a 2d square comes up. I would rather of seen an error message for that one than instant shut down.. Thanks for your help all. Have someone write up the small little error message for the next update??

Edited May 1, 2007 by clickityclk

[Guest]

If your diameter is set to 0 and 0, then it will be a right angle rectangle.

Once you add a value to the x and y diameter, it should round off.

I would turn off all programs, re-run Disk Utility to verify and repair disk permissions, then restart the computer and see what happens.

Edited May 1, 2007 by Katie

[clickityclk]

Everything's Green , verified, repaired etc. If you do not input corner dimensions and try to proceed with the tapered extrude vectorworks shuts off. Not cool.

[mike m oz]

I tried this with the same outcome that clickityclk reports. Shouldn't happen.

[mclaugh]

Not really surprising, since a extruding a rounded rectangle with a corner radius of Zero means you're dividing by zero.

[mike m oz]

It still shouldn't crash the program. It should return an error message instead.

I find it intriguing that you received an error message. I certainly didn't on my Apple version.

[propstuff]

Yep,

rounded Rectangle with "0" corners, tapered extrude = crash on Win XP, VW12.5.1

and also on OS 10.4.9 VW12.5.1

N.

Edited May 2, 2007 by propstuff

[Rick Francken]

What are the values in DiamX and DiamY? From your numbers there it looks like DiamX and DiamY values of 1.0" will taper down to 0" right around 13.75" in height. I seem to recall that this would make VW 12.5.0 crash, but 12.5.1 handles it without problem.

One guaranteed way to make Vectorworks crash is to set the DiamX and DiamY values to 0, and then try a Tapered extrude.

Or for a variation on that, use your rounded rectangle with DiamX and DiamY set to 1.0", create the tapered extrude, then double click the tapered extrude to edit the rounded rectangle, and set its DiamX and DiamY to zero. When you click on Exit, Vectorworks will crash.

[fsung]

NEWS FLASH: taper extruding rounded rectangles with Zero cm radius corners crashes VW, too.

I'm just baffled by the fact that anyone:

a) is attempting to taper extrude a ROUNDED RECTANGLE with a corner radius of zero;

b) is surprised that creating an object that requires dividing by zero crashes VW; and

c) would fault Nemetschek for not forseeing someone would be dumb enough to try to create a ROUNDED RECTANGLE with a corner radius of Zero and try to taper extrude it.

Sorry, but in my book, this one gets filed in the category of "It's impossible to make something idiot-proof, because the universe keeps making better idiots."

[mike m oz]

Fsung - the point being made is that the program should be robust enough to not curl up its toes every time someone does something that you wouldn't normally expect. Somebody will try it some time. Human nature.

Any attempt to divide by zero should return an error message, not crash the program.

[clickityclk]

fsung-- A rounded rectangle with a corner radius of zero is a rectangle. Why should that crash vw?

[fsung]

Fsung - the point being made is that the program should be robust enough to not curl up its toes every time someone does something that you wouldn't normally expect. Somebody will try it some time. Human nature.

Sure, and if you give 100 children a loaded gun and tell them not to pull the trigger, someone will do it.

At what point should Nemetschek's focus shift from providing functional tools for users who use them for their intended purposes to idiot-proofing them against users who attempt to use them out of spec? I can send you step-by-step instructions on non-standard, non-logical usages of three different tools that, when followed, will crash VW every time, which I discovered while messing around deliberately attempting to crash VW by trying things that no one in his or her right mind would ever attempt to do, like replacing a door symbol in a wall with a tree. Would you consider it a prudent use of time and resources for Nemetschek spend "fix" those completely illogical procedures on the off chance that someone out there may actually attempt perform actions that less than 1/10 of 1% of users will ever even think to attempt? I'm sorry, but as a customer, I would much rather Nemetschek focus its resources on servicing the situations that there is a reasonable probability that > 99.99% of users will encounter in the ordinary course of their workflow than the obscure situations that < .01% of users will ever possibly encounter.

You can argue that Nemetschek programmers "should" have been smart enough to anticipate a user would try to create a zero radius corner rounded rectangle with the rounded rectangle tool and taper extrude it, and to write a routine to identify and reject a corner radius of Zero in the Rounded Rectangle OPI or to recognize such a condition as a regular rectangle and automatically switch to the rectangle mode, but the fact is that the crash on taper extruding a Zero corner radius rounded rectangle goes back at least to VW 9.0 in Windows, OS 9, and OS X and has not been raised previously on the tech board illustrates just how rarely anyone has attempted to taper extrude a Zero corner radius rounded rectangle as opposed to taper extruding a regular rectangle.

Any attempt to divide by zero should return an error message, not crash the program.

Yes, it would be nice if that were the case, but given the myriad of ways it is possible, either accidentally or intentionally, to end up with a condition in which one divides by zero, it is unrealistic to expect Nemetschek to identify every possible such circumstance and still release upgrades and updates in a timely manner.

I don't expect ANY software company to have identified ALL the possible error conditions that could possibly arise with their product before it's released for use in the real world. The only thing that matters to me is how the software company responds AFTER a problem arising from an unforseen circumstance has been identified. On that count, Nemetschek, IMO, is better than most companies I've dealt with. I would be shocked if this is not addressed in the next update or release of VW.

[fsung]

fsung-- A rounded rectangle with a corner radius of zero is a rectangle.

And therefore, by definition, no longer a ROUNDED rectangle. The regular rectangle tool already handles zero-radius corners just fine.

Why should that crash vw?

Because you're dividing by Zero.

[FredM]

should a rounded rectangle with a radius of zero NOT be considerd a rectangle???? If I was creating a program, would I not try to eliminate ALL immediate shutdown's of the program I was trying to sell??? Are you an employee of VW or are you Adolf Hitler???? You seem to not see the common problem in the fact that VW disappears ,,,,Like you>>>>.....