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Relentless Crashes


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Thanks for your responses! There haven't been any changes to QuickTime recently, so I don't think it's that. I did run disk utility, but it kept getting worse after that. At first it just seemed to be when I deleted dimensions. But then it was other things, too. Maybe it had something to do with groups? It seems like it may have had to do with moving too quickly to delete something while wrapping up a previous command (though no faster than I've done 100 times before). So, I slowed down and saved prior to every delete. Oddly enough, at a certain point, it simply stopped crashing, and hasn't crashed since. Sunspots, maybe??...

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Hey Willof

Some of us have had probs with cutting or deleting while in groups, including viewports. One thing that at least 3 of us have in common is that we were all using old templates. In my case going back to V8. I haven't seen this since remaking a fresh template from a blank doc.

The idea is that something in the template has been corrupted at some point in the updating that happens when old files are converted for the new version.

It was a pretty random crash for me, so I'm not 100% sure yet that it has been solved.

Are you still using a template from an earlier version?

Charles

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Will, question: do you run DISK UTiLITY(DU) from your install disk? Because if you run it from your start-up drive, even though it *seems* to do something, it actually doesn't. It took me years to figure that out. I was always wondering why a) all of the same permission problems seems to be there every time I ran DU and, b) Why in the **** (fill in your own explitive) Apple even allows a user to run it from the startup disk, knowing that it is useless....

Anyhow, you may already know this, but, in order to ru DU from the install disk you need to wait through the entire welcom screen stuff, so it'll look like a new system is getting ready to be installed, but, after you choose your language, go up to UTILITIES>DISK UTILITY, then run the REPAIR DISK PERMISSONS command, that QUIT DU, the QUIT the INSATLLER...

HTH's...

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...Because if you run it from your start-up drive, even though it *seems* to do something, it actually doesn't. ...

I have great respect for Peter's knowledge and advice. I question this idea though. Do others have input on this idea?

When I run Disk Utility from the Startup Disk, it seems to work. When I first run it I may see twenty or more entries that need to be addressed. When I run it again, all of those items are gone/resolved.

Katie's mantra has always been to run Disk Utility. Perhaps she could set us straight on this issue.

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I have noticed that VW12.5.1 is acting abnormally after the updating from the online download. A number of functions no longer work.

I have requested an installation CD and hope/expect that it will resolve those issues. I have had to revert to my saved copy of VW12.0 in the meantime.

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I've heard several people, magazines, forums suggest you have to run it from the install disk, too.

However, in my experience, I've rarely seen the need to do this. It's usually a case where the user doesn't have proper permission to *repair* the files found to be in err, OR the problem is severe enough to impact the core OS. In both of these cases, the startup disk may not properly fix items.

With that said, I strongly encourage people to run Disk Utility every few weeks at a minimum, any and every time new software is installed/updated/deleted/changed.

The good news is, if things are intact, running disk utility takes less time than it does to brew a pot of coffee (or boil water for tea).

I typically run disk utility every pay day - it's the only date that sticks in my head AND I know this is every 2 weeks.

I run it before I leave for the day, so I don't spend time twiddling my thumbs while counting dots on the ceiling.

Edited by Katie
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Instead of just running Disk Utility periodically, I recommend running a fullblown maintenance and optimization program, such as Onyx (freeware), Maintenance (freeware), Cocktail (shareware), Mac Janitor (shareware), Tiger Cache Cleaner (shareware), TinkerTool System (shareware).

In addition to repairing permissions, these programs allow the user to run OS X's daily, weekly, and monthly maintenance scripts (particularly important if you don't leave your computer on 24/7), optimize the System, reset Spotlight's Index, rebuild the LaunchServices database, delete Application, Font and System caches, verify the S.M.A.R.T status of HDs, update Whatis and Locate databases, view logs, and all kinds of other useful tasks that are important to maintaining a stable, healthy system.

My maintenance/optimization tool of choice is Onyx from Titanium. (Maintenance, also by Titanium, is Onyx without the UI personalization tweaks.)

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I use MacJanitor, and I think it only does the things that Mac computers do themselves if they are left on at night, and not all of the tasks Fsung lists.

I also have DiskWarrior 4.0, which has to be paid for, but it is an excellent program for Macs, and IMHO is the only maintenance program you need unless you are a computer/software engineer. Its (new) permissions rebuild seems more comprehensive than Disk Utility.

I run them both at least once a week as part of a regular clearout and backup routine.

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Thanks everyone for this discussion! I called Apple to get their input on the issue of Mac Maintenance, and my understanding is as follows:

I was wondering if disk defragmentation is necessary with a Mac, and they said it's not really an applicable question since the two operating systems are so different.

Disk Utility (DU) can be run directly from the OS/Start-Up Drive, evidently just as effectively as if run from the Installation CD, for verifying and repairing permissions and for verifying the disk itself. If disk verification fails, then, of course, it is necessary to repair the disk using the Installation CD. Running DU once a week is reasonable. If DU is incapable of resolving a problem, third-party software might be more capable.

It seems a Mac should be restarted at least once every two days; shutting it down every night, or even when not in use, are even better options. Evidently the more a computer is left on and/or connected to the Internet, the more issues it is likely to have, and the greater the 'need' for third-party maintenance software.

Possibly the crashes I was experiencing were related simply to having too many applications running at once, though I'm pretty sure I'd restarted and shut down most applications prior to the worst of the crashes... but I was rushing with a deadline, so who can know for sure! Sunspots, I still say...

Hope this is helpful... -Will

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Will,

I don't know who at Apple you spoke with, but some of the information you received is questionable, and some is just plain wrong.

I was wondering if disk defragmentation is necessary with a Mac, and they said it's not really an applicable question since the two operating systems are so different.

While OS X does a much better job of file management than Windows, performance lag due to file fragmentation can still be an issue, particularly as you?approach HD capacity.

Also, be aware that OS X only auto-optimizes files < 20Mb, so if you're working with files > 20Mb, you may benefit from optimizing occasionally.

It seems a Mac should be restarted at least once every two days; shutting it down every night, or even when not in use, are even better options. Evidently the more a computer is left on and/or connected to the Internet, the more issues it is likely to have, and the greater the 'need' for third-party maintenance software.

Again, I don't know who at Apple you talked to, but shutting down every night is NOT better than leavng the computer running 24/7.

OS X, like all *nix systems, runs daily, weekly, and monthly maintenance scripts that clean up a variety of System logs and temporary files and rebuild critical system databases that are essential to maintaining a stable system. By default, these scripts are executed between 03:15 and 05:30 hours local time, depending on the script, so if your system is shut down or in sleep mode during these hours, the maintenance scripts won't run. You can, of course, run the scripts manually or edit them to run at a time when the computer will be on and idle, but for optimum performance, they do need to be run regularly.

As for restarting every few days, OS X is based on BSD Unix which is designed for 99% uptime, so while restarting occasionally may not hurt, it is by no means necessary. Except for forced restarts due to power outages or system or VW updates, our dedicated rendering system has run 24/7 since Sept. '05 with no measurable decrease in stability or performance between restarts.

The only tangible benefit of restarting OS X occasionally is that it flushes the RAM, which can become fragmented over time, but you can accomplish the same thing by logging out and logging back in.

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islandmon - that could very well be, the Mayan Calendar! I'm open to anything. Though I did have a crazy idea... (see below)

mclaugh - thanks for your thoughtful and thorough response. It (of course) prompted me to dig a bit further. I did some Googling and reading on the subject, little of which conflicted with what you wrote. Then I did a Mac Help search for "Maintenance" and, sure enough, found an article under Support Articles, "Mac OS X: How to force background maintenance tasks," which even included confirmation that, indeed, the Mac does maintenance from 3:15 to 5:30 AM, and also references to third-party software as has been discussed here.

So now I'm questioning both my experience with Apple Tech Support, and why basic maintenance is such a difficult thing to learn about.

My relentless crashes occurred (of course) during an all-nighter preceeding a deadline. And they suddenly stopped. Here's my crazy idea... is it possible that, since my computer was on, this maintenance took place in the background while I was working and resolved the issue??

Regarding defragmentation and optimizing, I'm only around 25% of my HD capacity, but definitely have lots of VW files over 20 mb. How does one optimize/defrag a Mac?...

I have found (maybe due to lack of maintenance(?)...) that after a few hours of heavy-duty VectorWorking, it really helps to restart.

Last but not least, and as touched upon by 'eas,' presumably while sleep mode must use some (negligble?) amount of power, certainly it uses a lot less power than when the computer is fully functional (including sitting and not 'doing' anything?)? So it seems sleep mode is recommended, and that maybe in Preferences the computer can be scheduled to wake up at 3:00 AM?...

Thanks again, Will

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My computer runs 24/7, but I have to restart the computer couple times a day as VectorWorks is decreasing the amount of system memory available & is not regained when I quit VectorWorks. The bigger the files (>10 MB), especially those with large aerial photos as background, eventully reduce my free system memory below 200 MB. I have never checked to see if memory is regained during the night.

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My computer runs 24/7, but I have to restart the computer couple times a day as VectorWorks is decreasing the amount of system memory available & is not regained when I quit VectorWorks. The bigger the files (>10 MB), especially those with large aerial photos as background, eventully reduce my free system memory below 200 MB. I have never checked to see if memory is regained during the night.

The maintenance scripts do not defragment memory.

Next time you run into memory fragmentation problems, try logging out and logging back in instead of restarting: it's much faster and accomplishes the same thing.

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My relentless crashes occurred (of course) during an all-nighter preceeding a deadline. And they suddenly stopped. Here's my crazy idea... is it possible that, since my computer was on, this maintenance took place in the background while I was working and resolved the issue??

It's possible, but I think it's unlikely. I haven't mucked around with the scripts recently, but IIRC, they contain a routine to check CPU usage and only run if the processor is idle; if the processor is in use, they hang around in the background until the processor is free.

OTOH, if you restarted sometime after the script(s) launched but before they actually ran (because they were idling in the background), they would have run immediately following startup, so, again, it is certainly possible they would have fixed whatever was causing the crashes.)

Regarding defragmentation and optimizing, I'm only around 25% of my HD capacity, but definitely have lots of VW files over 20 mb. How does one optimize/defrag a Mac?

Look at a third party HD utlity like Drive Genius, TechTool Pro or iDefrag.

I use both TT Pro and Drive Genius and would not hesitate to recommend either. Although I have not used iDefrag, I know people prefer it to TT Pro and Drive Genius.

Last but not least, and as touched upon by 'eas,' presumably while sleep mode must use some (negligble?) amount of power, certainly it uses a lot less power than when the computer is fully functional (including sitting and not 'doing' anything?)? So it seems sleep mode is recommended, and that maybe in Preferences the computer can be scheduled to wake up at 3:00 AM?.

Energy consumption depends on model, available memory. HDs, and monitor(s). A quad-core Mac Pro w/the NVidia Quadro FX graphics cards, 8Gb RAM and 4 HDs idles at around 220 watts; spinning down all 4 HDs cuts consumption to around 180 watts; sleeping cuts consumption to around 7 watts; shut down, consumption is around 2 watts. (Like most electronic devices, Macs draw power even when turned off.) You can reduce consumption while idle by setting HDs to spin down when not in use, sleeping the display, and throttling down processor performance in the Energy Saver Preference Pane.

To set your computer to wake from sleep at a pre-determined time:

Preferences > Energe Saver > Schedule

Check "Start up or wake," select date and time, click "OK."

If you do sleep your computer, however, you should be aware that in Tiger (10.4.x) time-shifts the execution of the maintenance scripts by the amount of time your computer is sleeping, which may result in the script(s) not running at all. See the FAQ for details.

(While you're at it, browse through the other FAQs on the site. Probably wouldn't hurt to bookmark the site as well.)

Edited by mclaugh
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For Mac users, I strongly recommend that you buy either TechTool or Diskwarrior, (DW). I use Diskwarrior and I run it every couple of weeks.

Over time your hard drive may become corrupted. Sometimes you notice the corruption and sometimes you don't. Let enough corruption build up and you will experience problems.

My approach is to use DW regularly so that those problems don't arise. The way that I think of it is like "following a trail of bread crumbs". Lose a few crumbs and it will slow you down. Lose enough crumbs and you won't be able to find the trail at all. DW will replace those stray crumbs that were lost to the birds and the wind.

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