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# Rulers not consistent in views

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I'm designing a desk in 3D. When I change views(from Right to Front to Top, in 3D) the rulers are consistent in only the Right & Front views. The Y ruler in the Top view is about 1.5" - 2" off.

Is there something I'm not doing, or not doing correctly?

thanks,

dave

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I usually have them turned off, I don't find them very useful. A test starting with a square (20") with one corner @ 0,0. After extruding the square and viewed from different angles is the same. Please explain what it is that is off by 1.5 -2". Are you trying to use the rulers to size your objects when creating them?

George

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Hi George,

Thanks for the reply. Here's what happens.

I have already created a number of pieces that have been extruded, so I'm in 3D mode. Just to test the issue, I've:

1) In "Right" view, I draw a 1" x 1" square, and place it's lower left corner at exactly 0" (z, on the left ruler, since this is 3D) and 0" (y, the top ruler). I then extrude it (in the x direction) by 10 inches, so I have a 1"(y) by 1"(z) by 10"(x) cube.

2) I now go to the "Front View, and place the lower left corner (dragging horizontally only) at 0"(x, using the top ruler). So now I have a cube whose lower left corner should be at 0"(x), 0"(y) and 0"(z).

3) Here's the problem. When I go to the "Top" view, and look at the object, the lower left corner is now at 0"(x, the top ruler), but the y coordinate (the left ruler) reads, -1.939031".

Am I missing something? I guess I keep harking back to the issue that an extruded object contains no readout of it's position in 3D space, like what's displayed when creating a polyine. Sorry to keep ragging about that.

Thanks for your help, I hope this makes sense.

Dave

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Dave,

It works, try zooming in on the point that is at 0,0 and it will eventually read 0,0 again.

"extruded object contains no readout of it's position in 3D space, like what's displayed when creating a polyine."

The "readout" at the top when drawing a polyline or anything is the current position of the cursor. What part of a 3D object would you like to have displayed as its "location"? Each vertex has a different location.

George

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Thanks George.

It's the Top view that's giving me the trouble. I've tried zooming in, and the object that should be at 0" is actually at -2". Should I be changing the "Set Origin" for different views? I would think that would screw up everything. I'm not sure what's going on, but it's really frustrating.

And on the "position in 3D space", I deal with this all the time in animation programs, and it works correctly there, in dealing with it's position in 3D space. You know when you draw a polyline, and let's say you're working in any view in which you're seeing only 2 axes. When you select the polyline, in the Shape tab in the Object Info Palette, there's the little square of 9 dots (sorry, I'm not sure what it's called), 4 corners plus 4 mid-points plus a center dot. This gives you any position of that 2-dimensional polyline you want, relative to the dot you've selected. Well, after you've extruded a polyline, and it becomes a 3D object, why can't you still have that method of picking which point you want as a reference, and get a readout that gives it's position in whatever axes are applicable (in Right view, it would be y/z, in Front view it would be x/z, and in Top view it would be x/y. As you're still viewing only 2 dimensions in those views, even though you're looking at a 3D object, why can't you get a position of the object (depending on which dot you chose) in those 2 axes? It would only require that the label change in the Shape Tab.

Does that make sense?

Dave

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Dave,

Yes, it makes sense. I'm not a programmer,so I can't explain why extrudes behave this way. The same thing happens in C4D with primitives until they are made editable. If you convert an extrude to 3D polygons you can do what you describe with the vertexes that comprise each polygon. I know this is not what you want to do.

George

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I don't think there is an unambigous and generic method of defining the "location" of a 3D-object such as extrusion. They can be created in any projection, rotated after creation and so on. Only the x/y/z location of each vertex can be known.

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As you're still viewing only 2 dimensions in those views, even though you're looking at a 3D object, why can't you get a position of the object (depending on which dot you chose) in those 2 axes?

Does that make sense?

Dave

I still don't get why you have such an issue with this. What you want to do is select a dot in the OIP and gets its position. Putting aside for the moment that in your example you could be selecting one of 2 dots - front or back, what's the difference in difficulty selecting a dot in the OIP, and selecting a "dot" in the actual drawing (in what ever view you choose), to get its position?

And the method you describe will be even less effective with more complicated objects.

Look, there are issues we'd all like to address in VW, but seriously, this is not one of them. Maybe it is a different method than you're used to but If you want to see it as a problem, you're just making it unnecessarily difficult for yourself.

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Try this simple trick... always place a red 3D Locus at the XYZ =000.

This helps with orienting the objects in space.

Also, creating all 3d & Hybrids at the center really helps with editing & placement.

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OK, thanks to everyone for their comments. You're right, David, I might be making it more difficult trying to find a solution, but I'm finding that what I have to do to accurately move a 3D object to a specific location, is to first draw a guide (or two or three), and snap it to that location. It's just that my mind says that that's 2 or 4 steps more than that kind of action needs to be. Please excuse my expectation that something can be made simpler (why take 4 steps that could be acheived in 1 or 2?). Also, David, I agree that on a 3D object that has been rotated, or that is not a simple shape, that becomes a more difficult thing to achieve. I guess I'm speaking from a more simplified point of view - alas, I'm not an engineer (I'm assuming all of you are), and so I probably see things in an albeit more simplified way. But I do tend to be a perfectionist, and if I can see how something could be done, I wonder why it can't be like that. Oh well, that's my issue in life!!

Petri, I think that's all I really want, is perhaps a readout of the 'vertex' position, other than the position readouts at the top of the window. Maybe my Snap-To distance setting is not set right, but the readouts don't seem to be reading correctly. Here's a thought - perhaps also that my resolution settings in the Units preference are not set right, and it is actual rounding to the resolution setting I have set, and not to the actual position of the object. Could that be right?

Anyway, thanks for everyone's comments (I like islandmon's locus idea). I don't mean to be difficult, just thinking it could be better somehow.

Dave

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Sorry, guys, but now I'm confused even more.

I did what islandmon suggested, and:

1) placed a 3D locus at 0/0/0 (xyz, in the using the Right view, Fig-1). Using the top ruler(y), locus is at 0, but on the left ruler(z), it is at 20, which coincidentally, appears to be the center of the paper.

2) then switched to front view (fig-2). 3D locus is now at 0, top ruler(x), but still 20 with the left ruler(z). All the while the position in the Shape tab says 0/0/0.

3) then switch to top view, and now locus is at 0 top ruler(x) and 0 left ruler(y).

So, the question is, is the ruler (z ruler) giving me an inaccurate reading, or is the ruler not coinciding with the actual z position, or plane or what?? Is there something with planes that I'm not getting.

Again, I'm sorry if all this seems ordinary for everyone else, it's just weirding me out.

thanks, dave

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Petri, I think that's all I really want, is perhaps a readout of the 'vertex' position, other than the position readouts at the top of the window.

OK, but with a rotated extrude that was created in a whatever projection and having even a few hundred vertices that could be difficult in Object Info...

The 3D Reshape tool is quite handy for coordinate readouts. I mainly use that, but 3D loci also occasionally.

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How did you place the 3D locus? I cannot reproduce your error. Ruler , Tabs at top & OIP all coincide for me in all views.

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George,

Maybe that's the issue. Could one of my axes (rulers) be non-aligned? I don't even know what that means....now I'm just saying things!

I placed it in the front view, and then set the position values (in the Shape tab) to 0/0/0.

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Don't place it with the mouse. Double click 3D Locus tool, 0,0,0 - OK. Same problem?

Does it happen in new, empty file?

As I mentioned earlier, I haven't used the ruler in years. Object snaps, values typed into fields work fine. I don't know of any way to adjust the rulers - just turn them off & forget them. I have had no problem getting consistent results once I got used to the way VW works - it's very different from 3D modeling programs.

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Looks like you may have inadvertently shifted the working plane down 20'.

Sometimes this happens with a misplaced keystroke .. it's frustrating.

Honestly, it's happened to me a few times .. can't recall the exact sequence of events...

( you know in the twilight zone .. then wham .. shifted 3d ) but when it happens...

I immediately Undo the last few steps and Save ... cus its next to impossible to correct ; )

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Islandmon, Working Planes are difficult to use at the best of times. The implementation needs to be changed so that it is as easy to work on different faces of objects as it is in programs like SketchUP and Autocad 2007. VWs Working Plane implementation is idiosyncratic - I regularly end up tearing my hair out with the damned things. One of the things that makes it confusing is how the 3D XYZ centre point doesn't move with the 2D origin. Relocate the 2D origin and the XYZ centre point stays where it is. If you want it to coincide with the 2D origin you have to relocate it by using a Working Plane. How confusing is that.

I agree that Newbie has probably moved the Working Plane and he is in Working Plane Mode. When you are in Working Plane Mode the rulers will not be correct,

Newbie you need to go back to Ground Plane mode. This can be done by going to the Working Plane palette, clicking on the Ground Plane Mode button (bottom RH corner) and then double clicking on Ground Plane in the Working Plane list (Ground Plane will always be there at the top). Sometimes it helps if you go back to Top Plan View first. Having the grid showing helps with Working Planes - whenever you can see a pink grid as well as the grey grid you know you have a Working Plane in action.

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Maybe my Snap-To distance setting is not set right, but the readouts don't seem to be reading correctly. Here's a thought - perhaps also that my resolution settings in the Units preference are not set right,

Dave

It sounds like you don't have your cursor cues on, or you're not using them correctly. Regardless of snap-to settings (3 pixels is typical) if you get a cusor clue appearing, you have, without any doubt, selected the required point. Maybe you could also try the audio cue - check the "use sound" box in VW prefs. I find it useful.

The fact you are using guides for moving objects in what is a relatively simple model, is a clear indication to me you haven't understood the use of "smart points" - they are one of the fundamental techniques in VW, and if you don't understand them, it is no wonder you seem to be having problems. I suggest you review their use from the manual.

The resolution settings have nothing to do with the innate accuracy of VW, merely the rounding off of dimensions.

Edited by DDDesign
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Wow, thanks for all your help. Mike, I tried what you said about the Ground Plane/Working Plane, but there was no working plane in the list, but I made sure the bottom right button was selected, and double-clicked Ground Plane in the list, but the problem was still there. Would you like me to send you the file to look at? It's pretty small (600k).

Thanks everyone for the help, and David, I'll review the use of "smart points".

dave

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