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While Nicholas concentrates his harsh attack on poor Susan I think it wise to return to the original thread.

Ozcad should sell vectorworks in its original flavours for comparable price to that in the USA. Make the extras optional.

If not Australian buyers should be able to buy from Nemetschek USA direct.

Australians had the same problem with music CD's until parallel importing was allowed. The arguments were the same. I thought legislation had fixed this for similar overseas intellectual property issues - perhaps not. For anyone interested The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission would know.

Meanwhile Nicholas leave Susan alone. She has a right to express her opinion without you playing Master of Business Administration.

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I'm sorry you thought I was being harsh Digby, that was not my intention. -Nor was I calling anyone names.

What I was pointing out was that the economic viability of the US manufacturer selling direct to the US market are not the same as a local distributor selling to a small market like Australia.

This is not an attack. It is a simple reality.

To accuse Ozcad of a "Ripoff" may be an "opinion", but in my opinion (which I asume I also have a right to express), she -and you- are missing a vital point.

There is a reason for the difference in the AU and US price.

That is: It costs more to buy a license in Australia because it costs more per license to supply it to you in Australia.

There is nothing unique to VW or Australia or Ozcad in this; it is a universal characteristic of global trade. Prices vary for the "same" goods all over the world.

You may want NNA to sell direct from the maker, and not have any local support or representation; -many software companies trade in this way,... but that's a completely different argument from accusing Ozcad of "ripping people off big time" because of the economics of running a small business supplying services in a small market.

Who is making the "harsh attack" here?

Edited by propstuff
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Digby Dart you are indeed a gentleman. I shall ignore Nicholas forthwith. Thank you for your advise Katie but I have already contacted Ozcad. I contacted them after I found out the price difference between oz the US of A. I felt like a mouse phoning a mouse trap maker but these things must be done. Yes I was civil. The Ozcad lady was completely unrepentant listing off all the excuses mentioned here for why I paid twice as much as I should have. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Never mind Susan... live and learn. Maybe financially raped kinda sounds better than ripped off ! I guess when I have to upgrade though Ozcad its going to hurt more.

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Have you tried to use VW architect without WinDoor? Have you tried to make a window look like an Australian window without Stegbar products etc.? Have you tried to make a combination unit door/window without WinDoor? What about Australian-styled handrails? Hard without the add-on. How good is the Heliodon tool? I reckon, in the Australian market, VW could buy and sell ArchiCad a few times over.

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Ozcad add tools and content for the local market including but not limited to the following:

- WinDoor

- Handrail Tool

- Detailer Tool

- Heliodon Tool

- Steel Section Tool

- Custom Colour Tool

- Worksheet on Drawing Tool

- VAA Title Block Tool and Issue Command

- VAANZ Symbol Libraries (685 Mb of content)

- VAANZ Internal Libraries

There are sundry other tools included as well. These all make operating in our context easier. Yes you could operate without this added value - at a cost. To do so would be being penny wise and pound foolish.

The content is kept up to date with each new release and on top of this Ozcad provide very good support and after sales service.

If you want to run with DataCAD or Arriss or whatever without local content and tools and their support regimes go for it. Don't complain though about what you get, or more to the point don't get, for your dollar.

Edited by mike m oz
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Mike, I think what Susan is trying to say is that she doesn't have any use for those extras in her particular practice, and that she should have the choice to buy only the part of VectorWorks that she wants, at a lower price than people who do want the whole package. Or, as she would probably say it, "Screw all that crap."

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Just a word on the service from Ozcad... Julian is an extremely patient, dedicated workaholic who answers enquiries even on the weekend. His answers are always spot on and he has an amazing knowledge on proriferal subjects as well. Try to get a similar standard from AutoCad and it will cost $10 a minute charged to your credit card.I reckon VW Australia is really good value, especially as I read the forum and watch non-Australians grapple with window and door problems, and other enquiries that I, as a novice have the answers to, thanks to the Australian package.In addition, there are 15 or 20 tutorials that come with various versions of VW that fully explain all the Aussie add-0ns.

Edited by dontevenjoke
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I think what Susan is trying to say is that she doesn't have any use for those extras in her particular practice...

If she doesn't I am intrigued about what sort of work she is doing. The added Australian content is almost totally for architecture and complements and enhances the capabilities of Architect. I find it hard to believe that it is of no value to anyone using Architect.

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I think what Susan is trying to say is that she doesn't have any use for those extras in her particular practice...

If she doesn't I am intrigued about what sort of work she is doing. The added Australian content is almost totally for architecture and complements and enhances the capabilities of Architect. I find it hard to believe that it is of no value to anyone using Architect.

I must agree on this.

Maybe she'll have to consider to buy the pro version instead of the architect version?

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Perhaps Susan can provide us with more information on the work she does:

- Project type and size.

- Work type(s): design, design development, contract documentation.

- Work methodoogy: Modeling,drawing or somewhere in between.

Also explain how and why she doesn't need to use the added cpabilities, and therefore why they are of no value to her.

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For the benefit of everyone mike m oz sent me this private message:

"For Fundamentals: US$995 = A$1255 so the price differential to $1851 is a touch under 48%.

For Architect: US$1395 = A$1760 so the price differential to $2895 is a touch under 65%. There is substantial added value in the Australian version of Architect which more than justifies the additional cost.

The costs have been the same for nearly two years. Back then the A$ was around 55 US cents. At that stage the differential was far less and at one stage the A$ dipped to 46 US cents. You do the maths.

I suggest you also have a look at the cost of the alternatives: AutoCAD Architect, Archicad, Revit and Microstation Architect. Make sure you find out all of the costs and factor in the costs where applicable for compulsory annual upgrades, annual subscription costs, compulsory dongle insurance and pay for support. Do the exercise properly and you will be staggered by the price. The cost of Architect Oz is far less than each of those options."

DO NOT private message me again "mike m oz". Anything you have to say on this issue say it in an open forum. Do you work for Ozcad ? You seem to know a lot about the exchange rates at different times and how they affected Ozcads buying price.

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Really, Mike! How could you? A private message? That's unforgivable. That poor, sweet, innocent girl.

And the terrible things you said to her - talking about 'price differential' and 'cost alternative.' And 'compulsory dongle insurance,' for God's sake! Oh, we know what that means, you pervert.

That nice boy Digby should give you a thrashing. The poor girl has already been raped and ripped off, and now this. She should report you to the police. You're as unrepentant as that Ozcad lady that she had to bawl out on the phone.

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What's sad about this is that both Julian and mike m oz are huge contributors to the VectorWorks community. That there is a difference in price between the USA and Australia (or anywhere for that matter) comes down to simple value.

Susan, you need to understand that this forum (and it's users of course) can either be your friend or foe. You've started off on the wrong foot, believing that you got ripped off and now alienating the very people who can help you get the value out of VectorWorks that you desire.

Although VW is making great strides in the worldwide CAD market, the community of users (particularly those who care enough to help others on this tech board) is still relatively small. You would do well to apologize and start fresh with some thoughtful insight or questions.


...now back to the Petri thread...

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Good idea, Gideon. I can see a few points already where she resembles Petri, and also his progenitor Ignatius.

1. She promises to ignore people, 2. uses archaic formal language:

I shall ignore Nicholas forthwith.
3. the other person is always defective, 4. to an extreme degree:

The Ozcad lady was completely unrepentant
5. talks to herself:

Never mind Susan... live and learn.
6. with a dramatic flair:

Maybe financially raped kinda sounds better than ripped off !

But no ethnic slurs. No insults against a whole class of people to counter a point made by one member of that class. She's made an excellent start in only 3 posts, but it doesn't seem right to put her in the same league with Petri until she's delivered at least one class-action insult.

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Snap. You obviously hit a nerve Susan.

I think you'll find 'mike m oz' is an OzCad recommended trainer. Real name Mike Moore, based in Perth. http://www.ozcad.com.au/support/tuition.html

Mikes figures are what intrigue me. It means that OzCad pockets any windfall above at least US$0.46c/AU$1.00 exchange rate. Considering the exchange rate has been as high as US$0.88/AU$1.00 of late this represents conciderable profit. Very enlightening.

You are one very bright feisty woman Susan. Well done.

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Dear Digby Dart and Susan Shaw

If you would care to step back from your suspicion and growing theory that this is some sort of conspiracy you?ll see that people on this forum are trying to help you. None of them, including myself have any vested interest in defending the Australian distributor, rather just pointing out the facts, which is relevant not only to Vectorworks but other businesses that deal on a global market.

In these terms whilst Vectorworks is widely known it does not have the market share of other software, and in countries around the world the potential owners of the software vary due to population etc.

Vectorworks is a product owned and developed by NNA (Nemetschek North America) so it?s bound to have a large presence their. Australia is different and they rely on distributors to cover the reduced market in not only that country but others.

They are also able to customise the product to be more suited to that market.

They are also in business, the same as you, to make money, nothing wrong in that, it?s what makes the world go round.

Would you not rather deal with somebody who knows your countries particular needs, variations and understands what you require from the software. Do you not want the capability to talk to a human being on a telephone, rather than by long winded emails, about a problem or requirement you have of the software? Someone who can guide you in real time through the situation?

This is a users forum, where fellow users of the software come to help each other. I know Mike Moore, from this forum, and if he has a fault, it?s spending far too much time helping fellow users, for free, with Vectorworks.

Surely as Architects the added items that have been included in your version are what you need to do your job, quicker and easier. (as in time is money)

Just take a look at what Adobe charges for its Creative Suite, downloadable in exactly the same version as the ?American? version, in the UK. Yes it?s identical, it?s far bigger user base than Vectorworks but they still want over 30% more because it?s the UK.

Let me ask you a question. If when presenting your costs for a project to a client they reply they can get the same done for half or two thirds the price what is your response? How do you justify the prices that you charge?

Could it be localised knowledge, experience and level of service you offer?


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My suggestion would be to those thinking that you got ripped off is...did you research before purchasing? Was there an alternative package available & produced locally? Is the software produced locally have the same features available to the software that is potentialy going to ripped you off? Is the local product cost effective? Is it going to give you the return you so wish to have without spending more?

You don't go and buy a fridge to wash clothes, and complain that it does not have the enough features. You go out look at different models of washer and decide on features along with price. At he end of the day it's your choice, and you would have been advised on price. If you decide that you have been ripped off after the fact you have purchased is you misfortune.

I bought VW as it makes me feel good. Like buying a car. You relax behind the wheel of a car that is confortable and easy to drive.

Research better I say!

Edited by j.christ
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Rape is involuntary actions forced upon you against your expressed will.

Anyone who forks out and then calls out rape is bordering on the moronic.

Susan, I think you had consensual purchase and a belated screaming 'RAPE' might be just a little dramatic.

I'd make the best of your evil situation and enjoy the product.

IF you're as passionate about design as your are angry about being raped I reckon you'll make up the dollars in no time.

Otherwise email your address and I'll snail mail you 50 cents and you can ring someone who cares.

It just won't be my number you'll be calling.

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