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Scale Changed - What Happened?


sfatelier

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I recently discovered that on my model layer for the floor plan, the scale seems to have doubled; meaning that things measure half of what they should be. Everything on the elevation layer is fine. The layers are both scaled at 1/4" per the set up default. How do I change the floorplan so that the dimensions correspond with the objects again?

I am using 12.5, Windows XP Home. Thank you very much?

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Before you import an AutoCAD drawing, open it and determine what the UNITS are and what is the setting. I find the unit setting in many AutoCAD drawings is the DECIMAL option when a metric or imperial setting is needed. Of course, this assumes the objects were drawn at full scale in model space as they should be!

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The Scale Objects command does work well. However, it can cause great harm too. Be very careful about the Scale Entire Drawing check box. If you accidentally re-scale a mulit-layer drawing, you may not be able to easily recover from this action.

The safest thing to do is to import your DXF/DWG into a new blank document.

I wish NNA would change the Scale Object command dialog box. The Scale Entire Drawing option should have a secondary "Are you sure?" dialog box.

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Alchemilla, open the Autocad drawing and first determine if the object(s) are in model or paper space. If their on paper space them move them to model space if practical. Next change the AutoCAD units to whatever your using in VW's. AutoCAD 2000, look for FORMAT>UNITS in the menu and pick the ARCHITECTUAL option and change the units to your preference. Now, you need to know just one dimension of any object in the drawing, for example, if your looking at a foundation section and you know the wall is 8" thick, then draw a line across the wall and use AutoCAD's object properties to tell you how long the line is. Lets say it's 96" long, now you know the scale, it's 1:12. You can now either scale all of the objects to full scale within AutoCAD or import them at this scale into VW's. I prefer to work with full scale objects.

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Unfortunately, this does not answer my question. I am in model space (sorry, autocad term) and now everything seems to be at half scale. Any other suggestions?

Are we talking about Vectorworks or Autocad? I do not know what "model space" would be referring to in VW. See if you can use VW terms for VW and AC terms for AC.

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If you do not have AutoCAD or a viewer to determine the units when not provided by the owner, import the file using Determine Automatically. VectorWorks will make an attempt at reading the units and import using the stored units.

This does not always work, mainly because sometimes units are not stored in specific dxf/dwg files.

That's okay though - once the information is imported, you can measure the length of a known object. Once you have the measurement (make sure it's not on a viewport layer) you can use math to figure out what it's off by, or factor the difference. If you still can't get the factor or distance it's off by, import the drawing using different units until you find the one that works.

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If you have an object that measures 10', but it was originally created at 20' IN VECTORWORKS, then either the scale command was used to scale the object .5, or you are on a sheet layer and are trying to measure an object without entering the viewport>annotation section.

If you have an object that measures 10' and is supposed to be 20' AND the data was imported from another CAD program, then the import units were not correctly specified. The data can either be scaled using the Scale command, or reimport the data using the correct unit.

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Thanks everyone, this had been enlightening. Late last night I imported the Autocad file three times into 3 different documents: one with document units set to mm, one set to cm, one set to m. I then measured a doorway and the one that matched reality (doorways are 800mm, not 80m) was my answer. The scale command was a useful lesson however. Next time I will look for the 'determine automatically' thingy. Thanks

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Next time I will look for the 'determine automatically' thingy. Thanks

Good luck. That usually means that everything is scaled by a factor of 25.4 since a certain Mr. NNA believes that the world is measured in inches, unless specifically told otherwise. But what the heck: you can scale objects/entire drawing by typing "1/25.4" to the dialog. It does the calculation for you.

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Good luck. That usually means that everything is scaled by a factor of 25.4 since a certain Mr. NNA believes that the world is measured in inches, unless specifically told otherwise. But what the heck: you can scale objects/entire drawing by typing "1/25.4" to the dialog. It does the calculation for you.

Petri is correct in his analysis and advice - however, the fault is not with NNA, it's with AutoCAD. VW takes in the raw numbers, which in an AutoCAD file are not linked to any particular scale. Yes, VW does interpret those numbers as "inches" unless you choose otherwise, but it is AutoCAD that fails to supply any real-world context to its dimensions. You have the same problem in AutoCAD itself when opening an AutoCAD drawing supplied by a consultant. I almost always have to scale a surveyor's drawings by 1/12, for example, or a IU-based manufacturer's details by 1/25.4 (again, I'm talking about AutoCAD -> AutoCAD). That would never happen in a VW -> VW transaction.

Is it so unexpected that software written in the US chooses inches as a default when importing a file? After all, there has to be SOME default. I suspect that in every VW file, all objects are at their root stored in inches, and then translated at the user interface when a different unit is selected. This probably goes way back to the first MiniCAD version. The advantage to the VW user is that to get dimensions to read in millimeters, one has only to change the units preference. In AutoCAD, you have to take your objects and scale them up by 25.4 if they were originally created in inches.

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Getting back to the original question. The objects changed scale midstream. Walls that, in the object info palette are supposed to be 8" thick are now 4" thick. Everything else is half the size except some dimensions and text. Changing the scale of the objects does not work because not all of the objects changed. Besides in the viewports on the sheet layers, once I double the size of the objects, the viewports are no longer large enough to contain all of the drawing at the proper scale.

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Wall thickness can only be changed by either redrawing the wall, or changing the wall style/thickness in the Obj Info Palette.

Select only the objects you want changed - then run the scale command.

The problem in the viewports - you'll either have to recreate the viewports, or simply edit the viewport and expand the crop object OR change the scale of the viewport.

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Is it so unexpected that software written in the US chooses inches as a default when importing a file?

Not at all, au contraire. I don't even think there would be a malicious intent ("Well, 95% of the world uses metric system so just to make the lives of the bastards miserable, I'll use inches as default"). It is just ignorance ("What do you mean you don't know what an inch is?").

Now, if the "CV project at the kitchen table" -legend of the mythical origins of MiniCAD is true, this is not suprising. What is surprising is that the situation has never been rectified, not even in major rewrites.

While perhaps less useful and appealing, the AutoCAD approach is also less "imperialistic". It is totally impartial and does not assume that a user knows what an obsolete unit (inch, palm, cubit, Russian verst) might be or that there even is such a unit.

Here in the modern, civilized world there is little guesswork even for AutoCAD users. If something is not in millimetres, it is in metres. Scaling factors are easy, should they ever be needed. (The Dutch architects, I believe, use centimeters, though.) Nevertheless, we have to pay homage to some medieval units of measurement and learn the intricate rites of conversions.

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What is surprising is that the situation has never been rectified, not even in major rewrites.

Well, if I'm right that the basic elements of a drawing are described in terms of inches at the object root, any change to the standard would require that all legacy files would have to be scaled for this standard to change. I think there would be dire consequences at a detail level if this were ever attempted.

While perhaps less useful and appealing, the AutoCAD approach is also less "imperialistic". It is totally impartial and does not assume that a user knows what an obsolete unit (inch, palm, cubit, Russian verst) might be or that there even is such a unit.

Less appealing is right!

Here in the modern, civilized world there is little guesswork even for AutoCAD users. If something is not in millimetres, it is in metres. Scaling factors are easy, should they ever be needed.

No argument there!

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