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andrewbirch

VW 12.5 Breaks C4D Export Plugin

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Here we go again!

Third party, free plugins still work - but Maxon & NNA can't bother to check or warn users that their $95 export plugin is broken and will have to be re-written. C'mon, give us a break, this is not the first time this has happened. Are we going to have to wait months for Maxon to get around to it?

George

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IMHO the fault lies with the VW guys and NOT Maxon. Why do they have to change formats during a version release (VW v12.x). The same thing happened in v11 when they changed file formats from .rsr to .qtr. I don't understand this. This has totally made my workflow impossible. This is extremely unfair on the part of NemetschekNA.

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It breaks Artlantis export too; these updates always do. Usually Abvent sort something out in a week or two. There doesn't appear to be much communication between Abvent and NNA. Same with Maxon by the sounds of things.

Unfortunately I think it boils down to NNA's old school attitude toward companies that it sees as competition:

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthrea...60226#Post60933

It's an attitude that surprises me when you consider the success of "web 2.0" companies these days, like Flickr.com etc., whose number one feature is interoperability and openness.

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I think Christian's comment about perceived competition is closer to the reason. Despite the fact that NNA & Maxon are part of the same group of companies, C4D capabilities put pressure on NNA to improve Renderworks. The irony is that I had never heard of C4D until a promotional offer appeared on the NNA site several years ago for C4D V6 at a discounted price.

I'm not surprised that the plugin needs to be redone. NNA knows that there are a lot of C4D users among their customers. A Release Note mentioning this would have been nice.

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I think the title of this (while technically correct) is a little mis-directed. "VW 12.5 Breaks C4D Export Plugin" could also (and perhaps more accurately) be put "Maxon and Abvent fall behind in their VectorWorks Plug-ins". We did (during the 12.5 development cycle) and do provide notice of incompatibility to and support for all third party plug-in developers. It's not reasonable (or rational) to expect us to hold up release of a product because a third party isn't ready. The customers of that product need to make it known to the appropriate third party developer that VW is important to them. We have no control over them, period.

As for competition, I agree that competition is healthy. And I think the development of RenderWorks over the last few product cycles stands on its own as a testament to our commitment to it and to our RenderWorks using customers. If you aren't using RW because of how it was in VW8 or VW9, you're doing yourself a disservice by ignoring it now.

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As for competition, I agree that competition is healthy. And I think the development of RenderWorks over the last few product cycles stands on its own as a testament to our commitment to it and to our RenderWorks using customers. If you aren't using RW because of how it was in VW8 or VW9, you're doing yourself a disservice by ignoring it now.

Robert, if you read these two threads you'll see that I use Artlantis because it offers superior workflow and output to Renderworks:

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB20&Number=60663

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB20&Number=60356

In fact there are some screenshots of a project that I simply could not have completed if I had attempted to do them with Renderworks. The difference is that big.

I'd rather see Renderworks compete on merit but, frankly, if it's going to be a obstacle to better interoperability with 3rd party rendering tools (as per my link above), I'd rather NNA dropped Renderworks altogether. In fact this is not such a silly idea either, as it seems that the main obstacle to Renderworks working on a level to that of Artlantis is that fact that it's tied into the Vectorworks environment.

Update: URL corrected

Edited by Christiaan

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I understand that Maxon provides the plugin, my point was that it would be nice if you communicated these "incompatilities" to the users of VW (your customers), rather than let us discover it after the upgrade is installed. It appears that you were aware of a problem. It is obvious that I have VW/RW12, or I wouldn't be able to use the upgrade.

RW has improved, but C4D is on another level - quality of render, greater control of materials, animation, etc.

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Christiaan, you have your preferences, I'm not going to beat that dead horse here.

George, it is simply not our role to communicate *anything* on behalf of another company. It is the role of the third party company to talk to you (their customer) as to the state of their development. To do otherwise is simply bad business. We were or are not aware of any particular problem on the part of C4D or Abvent.

Those of you who have chosen to use a third-party add-on for rendering for whatever reason (and I'm sure your reasons are valid for you) are welcome to do so. But this inevitably entails becoming your own "technical support provider" from time to time. Now is one of those times. As we say, "You pays your money and you takes your choice."

We happily assist either Abvent or Maxon with tech support when they so request in the process of making their port. All I'm saying is, you shouldn't expect us to go overboard in promoting a competitor's product.

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We did (during the 12.5 development cycle) and do provide notice of incompatibility to and support for all third party plug-in developers.

We were or are not aware of any particular problem on the part of C4D or Abvent.

?

"You pays your money and you takes your choice."

Agreed

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I just spoke with Maxon Tech support. They are aware of the problem with the Exchange Plugin and advise checking the Maxon website for a solution. Could not be specific as to how long it will be.

Robert, no offense intended. I know you take pride in your product.

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Since I started the thread, I'll just chime in here. I would agree that the plugin developer is responsible for getting their software out on time or if not, and certainly notifying the user base with a reasonable expectation of when that might happen. So shame on Maxon for not having a helpful answer, if they know ahead of time about incompatibility. However....

One might also expect NNA to release a note of incompatibility as a courtesy as well, ESPECIALLY if they are owned by the same parent company as Maxon.

To Robert's point, I understand that coopetition is a reality in today's marketplace. But I will submit that those of us who use high-end renderers and animators in conjunction with Vectorworks do so for many other business and artistic reasons, and if the implication here is that Vectorwoks will somehow displace their marketshare someday, NNA should come to grips with the reality of Renderworks, which in no way can even compete with Artlantis or C4D, by a long shot.

I think this is just another case of 'relatively small user base' gets treated as such. Such is business.

The opportunity lost here, is that despite an excellent point release by NNA, for those of us caught in the void here, it sours the excitement and appreciation for all of NNA's and Maxon's good work. Such is life.

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Christiaan, you have your preferences, I'm not going to beat that dead horse here.

Except that it's not a matter of preference. We do, in fact, use Renderworks, but it is simply not an option on our larger projects. I think you're miscalculating when you describe Artlantis as a competitor. Artlantis allows us to produce work that we could not produce with Renderworks.

All I'm saying is, you shouldn't expect us to go overboard in promoting a competitor's product.

We're not expecting you to promote a 3rd party product, let alone to go overboard. All we're expecting is reasonable interoperability and openness (something NNA does actually have a few clues about).

Surely it's reasonable, for instance, to expect that if I can make class names longer than 32 characters I should be able to export those class names?

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB37&Number=60226

With regard to notification about broken export plugins I can understand how you come to your point of view but this is not how all companies operate. There are plenty of software companies out there that happily do what is being asked in this thread. I'm simply suggesting that there appears to be a culture at NNA, with regard to perceived competitors, that prevents it from being such a company, and I think that's a pity, especially when NNA gets it in so many other ways.

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Christiaan, others within and without NNA may disagree, but in my *personal* opinion, it's bad business to speak on behalf of another company unless specifically requested to by that company, and to announce "incompatibilities" between VW12.5 and any third party product, that is essentially what you are asking that we do. Neither Maxon nor Abvent has (AFAIK) asked any such thing of us. Both Maxon and Abvent will receive (or maybe have already received, I'm personally not in a position to know) technical support in making their ports. Again, I'm describing my own personal sense of business ethics here, but I think that is all that we could and should be doing.

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I think, ethically, and practically, your first concern (in this instance) should be your own customers, but I can see how you could get yourselves into a pickle and understand perfectly why you'd want to avoid it.

However, you don't have to wait for them to ask. If I were you I would simply ask them if their products are compatible, on the basis that you will be advising your customers. Perfectly reasonable and ethical I would have thought.

P.S. hope you can take on board our concerns about the 32 character limit, it's our most pressing concern currently

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I love to put some more fire on the original complain of the C4d Export Plugin.

From my part the complain that the plug in does not work does not belong in this forum at all. It should even be taken out. If I as an Enduser use a plug in and it does not work with vectorworks, I will definitely inquire with the company which sold me the plug in. Let's be a little bit more professional and complain to the right people. Not whine and complain on this board. It's up to the complany who sells the plug in to get it working, not Vectorworks.

Note: I don't work for Vectorworks but I'm just used to handle problems with a particular software more efficient. And I use plug in Software too. My Vendor in this case Interior Cad immediately issued a note on their Support Bulletin Board about 12.5. That's what I call Customer Support. confused.gif

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Ah, that I had scanned the board before upgrading th 12.5, but with all the tantalizing features I couldn't wait.

So my issue now is that I need the VWC4D plug in to work - which apparently means uninstalling 12.5 and reinstalling 12. However, I've discovered the 12.1 is now longer available in the DL section - is there anyway to either roll back or get access to the previous version?

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VW12 is a CD install-never available as a download so far as I know. Reinstall from CD.

A tip (though too late for now): I always copy a working version before installing updates so I have something to fall back on.

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I will definitely inquire with the company which sold me the plug in. Let's be a little bit more professional and complain to the right people. Not whine and complain on this board. It's up to the complany who sells the plug in to get it working confused.gif

I purchased the plug-in from NNA, but they stopped supporting it right after it was released (I could go on about this, but won't). The plug-in was also written by the same people that write the Artlantis plug in.

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Sorry if I wasn't clear - it was the previous patch (12.01 or whatever it was) I was trying to track down. I definitly have the 12.0.0 CD.

And yes, I normally am better about backing up - just blew it this time.

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It's up to the complany who sells the plug in to get it working, not Vectorworks.

And no one in this thread has suggested this shouldn't be the case.

It's a lot easier to debate these things without straw man arguments.

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I am currently looking into the 12 0 1 updater link missing from the website. We should have the link posted up there within a few business days.

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