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JoeF

Wall suface patterns in hidden line mode, plus..

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I have been viewing tutorials and reading up stuff on Vectorworks as it appears we will be adopting it as our platform. So far I see some good things, but I cannot yet figure out how to get walls to display a pattern in hidden line mode. Since this will be the view that I will be using to generate the elevations in my finished drawings I am hoping I can avoid the tedium of having to hatch everything like AutoCAD. Also, I asked our dealer for an example of a project that has all the plans and elevations generated from the 3d model(not drafted in 2d) using viewports. Seems a difficult thing to obtain. Does no one do this? Is it too difficult? This is what I would like to do , but if it is not realistic I will just do 2d I guess. I would expect this would be a big selling point and a sample file would be available. What I want it for is to see if there are going to be challenges related to computer hardware etc. and to get some insight into techniques. Thanks in advance for any help in these matters.

Joe

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Joe,

The training CDs are probably a good place to start when wanting to learn more about viewports, details, and other 3D layout information you've requested. All of these are project based CDs, with files complete at various stages of the project. The final projects are also available for you to pick through and get a better understanding.

Likewise, we have an architect-based tutorial that teaches you all of this and then some - you start from scratch and move up to a complete multi-story house with all necessary construction documents, sheet presentations, and details.

Walls do not display the detail in a rendered mode- the component detail is used for plan view only, in addition

hatches and patterns are only 2d attributes.

Typically, hidden line renderings are used for interior/exterior elevations, not for details.

If you want to show details of a cut wall, VW provides a variety of detail tools to help you create wall details.

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Thanks for the information. I have been going through tutorials and I could not find the answer to this question. Thank you. I was hoping to use the 3d model to produce my elevations but if hatches and patterns are 2d only my elevations will look a bit drab. And since they are 2d they will no doubt be independant of the 3d walls, so if I have to make changes all the hatching will have to be redone. I was also thinking that I could produce perspective views to place in a sheet, but they again will be pretty dull without patterns. A brick wall will look the same as a board and batten. Most of the people I know who use Vectorworks rarely use the 3d features to produce their drawings. They might create 3d elements, but the drawings were always 2d. I can see how the lack of 3d patterns and hatches kind of dictates this work flow.

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Do textures show in hidden line view, or is the idea to use textures and use rendered elevations for the documentation? Is this the usual practice? This is why I am trying (without much luck) to get my hands on a sample file of a finished set of plans so I can see how it is put together. I've been going throught the online Video Library, but all the videos stop short of showing an actual set of dimensioned plans ready for printing. Thanks for the clue, I'll see if this leads anywhere.

Joe

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they wont show up in hidden line, it would be good if VW could do this, but you could create some of your own textures, just basic ones then it wont take to much CPU to render them

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Guest

You can show a textured render viewport under the same VP duplicated and set to a hidden line view - if you are looking for something like that.

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What I am trying to get a handle on is how to produce a finished elevation on a sheet. Ready to send off for printing and then off to the building department for your permit. As it is, the elevation would be devoid of patterns or hatches because the hidden line view cannot show patterns or hatches. No bricks, no shingles, no stucco,no stonework, etc. So how do you do it? Do you draw over top of the hidden line view with 2d elements? Do you create monochrome textures that resemble hatches and use a rendered view for documentation? There must be some work flow that everyone uses. One day I will get to to the bottom of this mystery.

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JoeF,

OK....heres the stuff!

Vectorworks will work just like most other CAD programs on the market when it comes to drawing and generating simple line views from a model. Here is the exception...Vectorworks provides you numouros tools with which to develop a complex model that when either rendered as an image or, in the case of condocs, display hidden lines intended for the user to paint with textures or hatches, apply notations and dimensions in order to communicate precisely the intentions of the designer or architect. Many of the tools provided make the task of drawing extremely simple, quick and easy to perform allowing for adequete time to train on the system.

Here is the cool part...you can get a complex as you want the adding elements to the model which will reduce drafting time for presentation. For example...if you wanted to show lap siding, corner boards and frieze trim it can be done either in a viewport with paint on tools or through 3d objects placed on the model. Now of course it takes considerable time to develop the 3d objects on the front end but as you build your 3d library that time will be shorter per house. On the other hand you can slowly build your library as you utilize viewport hidden line and paint hatched to display on your condocs.

Parts of the program that are ready to go...

1. Windows and doors are inserted with parametrics...easy no brainer.

2. Walls are parametric...very easy!

3. Roof structres...very complex designs are obtainable.

4. Interior components...most are parametric and easy to install.

5. General drafting...logical application of text, lines, hatches, textures, colors and symbols make it exceptional for the user to get used to.

Now is Vectorworks the best....you have to be the judge. I personally have operated many of the top systems available on the market with great success, howerever I now use Vectorworks because it is a very easy program to learn, gives me as much freedom I want to design and finally, it's quick...I can draw faster with more detail than ACAD and many of the other systems and to me I need a system that is quick.

You can use textures/images then print to PDF as grey scale which looks very professional. It's a different way to present condocs but it works very well.

You need to go on the NNA site and preview the gallary of images there are some finished product of condocs that will surely interst you.

Pete A.

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Thank You Pete,

Now were are getting somewhere. I too have used several programs and am trying to figure out the best way to leverage the 3d features in Vectorworks ao I can avoid some of the tedious time consuming work I have found myself in. I have found the 3d features of VW easy to use and the viewports feature looks very promising. So what it comes down to for condocs is one of two methods.

1. Use a hidden line view and paint on hatches.

2. Use a rendered view and print to grey scale PDF.

The second method is the one that appeals to me, as it means that elements at an angle to the view will display correctly. Of course one will have to tweak the textures so that they will not turn up as a solid in grey greyscale but that is the way with any program. I think that once you have a library of textures set up at different scales you will have gone a long way to automating this process. I will now conduct some experiments!! Thank You for your help!

Joe

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Joe,

You can also create textures from hatches. In a blank document, draw a rectangle and place the desired hatch. Export it as a .jpg. Using the Resource Browser menues, import the .jpg into a new texture. Now the hatch/texture can be assigned like any other texture and it will render correctly.

We use this method as well as "painting" with hatches in viewports. Since you can assign different textures to a class from the viewport, you can use whatever texture works best for the view you're generating.

Good luck,

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Create a new texture in the resource browser and check out the options under "Color" in the shaders section. I was able to make lines for clapboard siding using the "Horizontal stripe" option and a pretty decent shingle texture using the "Roof tiles" option. The shingle textue would require grayscale printing but makes for a good B&W look.

The cartoon setting in Artistic Renderworks give both edge lines and textures, although some lines are extraneous..

HTH

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I have read through these postings, and some questions for me remain.

There seem to be two options for adding "texture" to a building elevation:

1) In hidden line mode, using hatched polygons in each elevation's viewport.

Questions:

How does one achieve this besides tracing each surface and clipping holes in the resultant polygon to show the windows, trim, etc.? This is very tedious and difficult, especially since in viewport "update annotations" mode, the drawing is displayed in wireframe, so you have to sort through and ignore all the walls and objects behind the one you're tracing. Is there a way to get hidden line rendering of the building "in front" of the hatched polygon?

2) Using renderworks, with textures applied to the walls and/or roof.

Questions:

How do you export as a greyscale pdf? Does anyone have a source for good shingle and siding textures that will render like line drawings rather than photos? In particular, I am trying to show 1x8 "teardrop" 3 drop siding on two projects and shingles on another, and asphalt shingles on the roofs.

Thanks,

Graham

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Graham,

Some possibilities:

1a) You can Update a VP set to Hidden Line rendering and. . .when you enter Annotations the updated rendering will remain if you have Save Viewport Cache turned on in your Document Preferences.

2b) Make your own textures as explained above. . .will take you about 5 minutes after you get the hang of it. (I know the above is an extremely abbreviated explanation, but you can search either the KnowledgeBase or these boards for multiple threads that address this issue.) I don't know of any line-art textures available to the public, but they may well exist.

Don't forget you can stack VPs to accomplish a multitude of "looks".

Good luck,

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Guest

A quick trick for applying hatches to interior elevations/details is to use the polygon tool. There's a new mode to the polygon tool - it looks like a fill bucket. This mode allows you to quickly create a polygon from a network of other lines, a polygon either inside or outside of a wall network, or to fill in spaces - such as you describe.

Simply edit the viewport to jump into the annotation mode and use the polygon fill mode to "fill" the loose areas. Then apply the hatch to each of the polygons.

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Simply edit the viewport to jump into the annotation mode and use the polygon fill mode to "fill" the loose areas. Then apply the hatch to each of the polygons.

Hi Katie,

The poly bucket tool is a good thing, but it doesn't work in cropped viewports.

IE, the "source" object must be inside the crop object: if the wall extends past the bounds of the crop then no go.

N.

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True - I have an addendum to add:

Draw the two end pieces, then use the polygon fill bucket. It beats using the polygon tool to draw the whole outline.

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It's funny - I'm sitting here working on interior elevations and checking the board between renderings. (And a few finishing renderings)

I was in the exact same situation a little earlier, before I posted the addendum.

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i use hidden line rendered VP annotate with polygon bucket hatches without fill change VP rendering to artistic lines & shadow have a sun class for each quarter

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I created a texture for lap siding which is just horizontal black lines on a white background. When I show and elevation with Artistic Renderworks, the background is grey, not white. Do I know need a "sun" for each elevation? How is that done best?

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I would not use the texture route - it's very difficult (especially in exterior spaces) to get a true bright white color to display.

Instead, if you need to show a hatch or network of lines, edit the viewport (annotation mode) and hatch the surface of the object. To do this, use the fill bucket mode of the polygon tool to fill in the surface area. Then hatch the newly created polygon.

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I am using VW 11.5, so I guess I have to suffer for the time being. Increasing my suffering is the fact that selecting "Save Viewport Cache" in "Document Preferences" does not seem to stop the viewport from reverting to wireframe when I edit the annotations - any advice?

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One of the color shaders that comes with Renderworks is called Roof Tiles. Make sure you scoll down to the bottom of the pop-up list to see it. It does a good job right off the bat of a grayscale roof or siding shingle texture. You can have two copies and change the color of each to differentiate between the two.

To make the rendering more white, turn on Ambient Lighting to at least 75%, and then set the sun position to something close to your pacific time. Then in the edit window, change the two colors of that shader to white to completely get rid of the gray.

I don't know what "1x8 "teardrop" 3 drop siding" is...no help there.

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