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New to VW - Working with 3D Curves


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Hi,

I purchased VW11 over a year ago for exhibition and display design, and have hardly used it since, having found that SketchUp meets most of my 3D requirements.

Recently however, I am having to re-draw other people's conceptual designs for precise annotation, and modelling from scratch in SketchUp just to import DXF view captures to VW (like I usually do with my own designs) seems pointless, not to mention the lack of true curves and other workarounds that this necessitates.

Time to learn VectorWorks.

Right now I am drawing a plan in 2D, and will be converting the composed 2D lines into a floor slab to represent a raised deck. Whilst I am working in 2D these lines are rendered as proper curves, and I can add radius dimensions etc... This is great.

Once I either extrude up or convert to a floor slab, when viewed up close in Top/Plan VW renders the curve as a series of facets, I can no longer add radius dimensions, and there are several mysterious "corner" snaps created between the faceted sections.

curvesvspolygons.jpg

This looks to me as though VW doesn't create real curves in 3D. Please tell me that I am just being thick, or have missed something (convert to NURBS somehow maybe?) and haven't just (well, a year ago) spent more money on a product whose 3D capabilities at this basic level are no better than SketchUp... please?

I have checked several FAQ's/Tutorials, but I suppose this is the kind of blindingly obviously/painfully stupid question that isn't spelled out? Any help and advice much appreciated!

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The only "workaround" I can offer is to double click on your 3D object, which will bring you back into the 2D lines that you used to create your 3D object, use the dimensioning tool to get your radius etc. Then importantly, "cut" that dim from the drawing, once out of the "group", back in 3D, hit "paste in place".

That will give you the dimension in place, provided you have not moved the 3D object from its original creation point.

Bear in mind this dimension is a seperate object, in 2D, not connected to the 3D object in any way, but does give your construction people a measurement to work from.

It's a workaround, and it can get messy if you start changing views as the 2D stuff will not change position.

Bottom line is VV does not have the same dimensioning in 3D capability that Sketch Up has. You can't click and drag in 3D in other words.

Even taking your 3D model and using "convert copy to lines" is not going to work on any curves, because you'll get the facet lines rather than your original arc back.

There may be ways of doing this with viewports etc. but I don't use them, as yet so I don't have knowledge if this could be done in viewports.

I tend to create my designs in 3D with all the required presentation visuals etc. and once the stand pitch has been won/agreed create 2D views from my model and work with those, with my little workarounds.

Maybe not as effiecient as some but no compliants from the build crew.

Alan

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Thanks Kaare/Alan - starting to understand the 2D / 3D relationship in VW a bit more now!

Prior to using SketchUp, I used Rhino on my PC, which was very precise and fluid, but less useful for "architectural" modelling work due to the lack of intuitive parametrics, buggy implementation of blocks, no inferencing in the snap system and no paper space/sheet layer functionality.

Er, and then I got a Mac smile.gif

SketchUp filled the gap for a conceptual tool, and I am currently using DXF exports of plans and elevations, then redrawing curves and some other details more accurately in VectorWorks. This makes fairly good sense for my own designs, but for taking other people's concepts for which I don't have models and developing them into drawings, without the need for visuals or lots of changes, I had hoped that I could do everything "properly" in 3D in VW.

I will certainly have to get into VectorWorks more, but coming from my workflow, which I have always considered quite amateurish, I guess it's not quite the tool I imagined it to be frown.gif

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Not sure if this will help... but once you have drawn the 2D ojbect and before you have started to anything 3D to it 'copy' now start to extrude etc. Once you have finished creating the 3D object 'paste in place' the 2d drawing.

Now go 'Organise'>'Create symbol' a dialogue box will open, choose the setting (pretty straight forward) click 'OK'

Now you are able to look at the 2D drawing when in 'Plan" and the 3D model when viewing in 3D.

The advantage, this way is being able to dimension as you orginally wanted.

Another way would be to double click the 2D symbol once created then dimension. This way the dimensions would dissappear when in 3D.

Just a thought. hope it helps.

Cheers.

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This is an excellent suggestion, and it contains a kernel of how NNA can take advantage of the hybrid system to make it easy to toggle back and forth between a 2d and 3d version of the model. There should be a way to automate the generation of this 2d representation, instead of the labor-intensive method involved in creating a hybrid symbol. Currently 3d objects that are not hybrids are displayed as wire frames in Top/Plan view. My suggestion is that they should be displayed instead as 2d objects - e.g., the 2d polygon that is the root of an extrude object.

There are complications here, of course. What about objects that were extruded from a working plane other than the normal one? The 2d object would have to be properly skewed. One of the things that should be implemented, which I have wished for for years: have the 2d root geometry of extruded objects move in its 2d space in lockstep with spatial translations applied to the 3d object. If the 3d object is moved over 12", for example, the 2d object brought up by double clicking is in the current scheme of things no longer "registered" with the 3d object.

One of the advantages of VW over Rhino (and SketchUp too) is this very ability to move between the highly controlled 2d space and 3d geometry. I've never understood why NNA doesn't push this unique capability to the hilt.

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Following on from this I was wonder why we need the "2D space" anymore anyway? Perhaps somebody can explain why we need to draw in 2D when what we want to achieve from what we draw is the maximum versatility from that drawn information.

What is the advantage of having this 2D/3D environment as opposed to the 3D one in Sketch Up?

Surely if all you want to do is draw in 2D then keep your view as top/plan and imagine you are back on a drawing board with a single sheet of paper.

Layers giving you just more sheets to use.

The options to view in any other view than top/plan must surely only relate to objects drawn in 3D and serve no purpose to anybody drawing with flat 2D lines or am I missing something.

Maybe it's just how I came to VW.

If I wanted flat drawings I feel I'd have stayed on the drawing board.

I looked at VW as a way of drawing/creating in 3D that gave me the advantage I could extract "2D" drawings from it to make the construction drawings needed to make my 3D creations.

The only advantage I see is when creating hybrid symbols. I can create symbols in both 2D and 3D, then when it comes to presentation drawing rather than constructional ones I can present drawings that are clearer, graphically pleasing and easier to understand by none technical people than wireframe 3D or hidden line render views.

I guess rather than lose the "2D" capability the better option would be to have dimensioning capabilities in 3D space as per SU etc.

Alan

Edited by alanmac
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