Rendering Gel Color Inaccuracies

[Casey]

Hey Guys,

I'm new to the forums but have been reading and gleaning for over a year.

This may be a renderworks question, but it is specific to theatrical color media so you guys may be better suited to answer this question.

I own a copy of "VW12 Designer/Renderworks" and am a student and a freelance theatrical lighting designer.

I would really like to use VW to render my lighting looks as well as create the plot. I attended a section at USITT this spring on computer pre-visualization and answered most of my questions, but I have noticed that there are some gel colors that are way off. For instance, the color R59 in a S4 Ellipsoidal should be a deep indigo (in fact, it's name is "Indigo") but when rendered in VW12 on my computer it is a rather unattractive light blue. But then R26 ("light red") is exactly what it should be.

Has anyone else experienced this and what can I do to work around it (short of changing the colors to some other name for the visualization).

Also, what is the deal with the absence of colors such as R120-R122 and the other primary colors?

Any help is appreciated.

[propstuff]

Casey,

specifically; the particular Gels you are referring to may well be off colour, but generally; (forgive me if you know all this already);

Screen colour calibration is a notoriously tricky thing to do. Graphics people spend a lot of money having their monitors calibrated in order to display colours "correctly". In fact, if you were wanting to print accurately at home, you would have to calibrate your monitor to the particular printer and the paper stock as well. {:-O

Not only that, but they don't stay calibrated, and have to be re-done regularly.

In addition, some manufacturers of Gels use the same number for different colours, and I seem to recall that one of the blues falls under this category.

HTH.

N.

[islandmon]

Indeed, display Gamma & Contrast are normally much brighter than what a printer can realistically reproduce from RGB ( hence the need for CMYK adjustments ). Images which look really good on your display often print as over saturated and muddy with limited highlights. As Nicholas makes clear, it's both an art & science and constant brainteaser.

[Casey]

Thanks,

I think that this color is just off, because prompted by my own question I went back and looked at a bunch of different colors and for the most part they are very close.

It is not likely however that this is due to the same number used from different manufacturers as the program takes the same vernacular that I'm used to with color media:

R59

R-Roscoe

59-The specific color

However, I do feel that renderings produced in Vectorworks over all have a tendency to produce colors that are less saturate then they are on stage.

Edited June 15, 2006 by Casey

[propstuff]

I do feel that renderings produced in Vectorworks over all have a tendency to produce colors that are less saturate then they are on stage.

This comes back to screen display etc.

A computer screen is only ever going to be an approximation of how 2KW of discharge lamp pumping through a gel will be perceived.

I followed up the story I heard about the blue colour being off.

The lighting designer had specified all Lee colours except for one Roscoe of the same number but forgot to mention that it was a Roscoe................then complained that it was wrong.

With regards to your Gel colour, you should follow it up at bugsubmit.

cheers.

[Casey]

My question was regarding R59 in a ETC S-4 Ellipsoidal. So it should only be 575W. Are you saying that when rendering it does not take into account what wattage the lamp is, or are you saying that it cannot simulate more than 2KW?

Regardless, I don't think R59 would under any wattage, turn an icky bluish color.

Also, I took your suggestion and submitted it as a bug. I think that it is, in fact, a bug as all other colors render on my computer much closer to their realized counterparts. IE They at least read the correct hue.

[braneles]

i have a question for anyone who can answer it. Do you know if vectorworks is ever going to be able to input all the color gells that rosco is coming out with> fir example R2004

if you can help me please help. thanks

[Cris with no H]

Renderworks' color abilities are net yet too accurate. Pretty good with tints, not so hot on saturated gels. One workaround is to use a separte light object and use the color picker to assign its color. They are not as controllable as units and gobos, but the color can be tweaked a lot easier.

[grant_PD]

Regarding calibrating monitors...Greytag Macbeth makes a fairly inexpensive device called the "eye one." It's a few hundred dollars, but will calibrate your monitors and your printers. This will get you most of the way there as far as color accuracy, but it's always a good idea to test print and adjust in photoshop. Forget about being accurate when emailing pictures unless you're sending the image to a print shop that's also color calibrated. The average office/home monitor is way off, and will vary immensly from place to place.

[Jim_Allen]

I find VW too cumbersome to create renderings to present to a director as concept presentations, as well as you have to had made all your technical decisions (type of instruments, positions,etc) before you make your aesthetic decisions. I use VW for record rendering afterwords, when I have time.

What I do for presentation renderings is use Virtual Light Lab. It is a program that allows one to easily place instruments and colors to get a quick rendering of looks. I have found it really helpful, as you can show a director a look and if they don't like it, you can adjust the look right there and show other ideas. Granted it has limitations, but for fast and accurate color rendering of lighting, and working out aesthetic decisions, there is nothing like it.

The colors and color mixing are extemely accurate.

Jim