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Striplights


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VW 9.5.2 LW 4.0.3

I have created 3 section striplights and have the position set to auto number - num/alpha - so they show on the plot as 1.A,1.B,1.C,2.A, etc. When I import them into LW4 what I get is 1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3 etc - so I have to assume they are in order.

Seems to me that in LW3 I got 1A,1B,1C. Have I been smoking too much funny stuff or is this a new problem since LW4? Does anyone have this problem with VW10 to LW4 ???

Any ideas?

Jim

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Kevin wrote:

>I think it is a change for LW4. From the manual it appears that LW4 wants units to be numbered A1,A2,A3.... and considers 1A and 1B differtnt lights<

This is correct, though it's not just for LW4.

Lightwright - 2, 3 and I assume 4, deals with striplights as A1 being the first color circuit of the first strip, A2 the 2nd color same strip, A3 - 3rd color, then B1 next strip, etc...

You will need to turn off position auto-number and do a manual number along the rules established by Lightwright. You will want to do this in VW as it's easier to visualize which strip is first, etc... then to try it in LW where the UID/EID's may not list in the order they are drawn on the plot.

Steve B.

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As written in the on-line manual:

>UNIT NUMBERS can be whole numbers from 0 to 250, with an optional lowercase suffix from a to z. Using the suffix places the number between other items with simple numbers.

Example: 0, 1, 2, 3, 3a, 3b, 4, 4c, 4e, 5

If you want to place a unit ahead of #1 on the pipe, enter a, b, c, or whatever in lowercase to make it clear.

If you enter a number followed by a capital letter, Lightwright will automatically make it lowercase.

Striplights use CAPITAL LETTERS followed by a NUMBER indicating the color circuit.

Example: A 4-color striplight would use unit numbers A1, A2, A3 and A4. If there was another 4-color striplight on the same pipe, its numbers would be B1, B2, B3 and B4. The numbers can range from 1-250.

Instruments with the same striplight letter or the same unit number and suffix are considered the same light. If the striplight letters are different, then they are considered different lights. If the unit numbers are the same but the suffix letters are different, then they are considered different lights.

Example: 3 rows on the worksheet are all No. 1 ELEC #12. They are all considered the same light.

3 rows on the worksheet are No. 1 ELEC with unit numbers 12, 12a, and 12b. They are considered three separate lights.

3 rows on the worksheet are No. 1 ELEC with unit numbers A1, A2, and A3. They are considered all one single striplight.<

This has been the case since V2, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were able to make LW think it was dealing with strips somehow. Curious as to how it counted color, checked dimmer overloads, etc... as those functions really only work when setup the way John has it described above.

Steve B.

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Had some to time to play...

And much to my surprise, lableing strips in LW

as 1a, 1b, 1c, etc... seems to work just fine.

LW3 would not allow a capitolized letter, insisting on 1a, not 1A. Nor did I put a period between the number and letter, as per your original post. Regardless, it counted color and wattages correctly, as well as changing an existing VW plot to read with the new unit lableing for the strips, with no errors.

Hmmm.... makes me wonder whay I've bothered following the A1, A2 etc... protocal all these decades.... (grin)

Curious as to what John say's.

SB

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When I numbered them I used the VW "NUM/Aplha" auto numbering function and did the numbering in VW not LW, so I didn't actually do it myself. I knew I had always done them 1A, etc so I am wondering if it is a VW problem in how they do the numbering. According to John 1A or 1a or A1 shouldn't make any difference. When imported into LW it will read them and should be able to handle them like you experienced. Will let you know when I hear back from John.

For me it doesn't make sense to number all the other instruments 1,2,3 and strip lights A1,A2. If they are combined on a position it is a mess and the instruments won't be in order when imported into LW.

Just the old pre-computer drafting habits of labeling all instruments the same way, I guess.

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I was reminded today by a fellow LD why LW doesn't deal well with strips labled as "1A" or any method using a number.

If the only units on that position are strips, then using 1A, etc.. will work...

Until you try to add conventional fixtures onto the same position that also use a standard numerical unit number.

If you use the standard unit number syntax - such as adding a 6x16 in between strips 2 and 3, do you call it 2D ? (with strip 2 having a, b & c color circuits). That doesn't make sense, as it's not the 4th added unit.

Using A1, A2, A3, then a 6x16 as 2, then B1, B2, B3 makes somewhat more sense (in my mind). LW and VW like it better as well.

Steve B.

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since each strip is a unit unto itself, an instrument inserted between strip 2&3 would become 3 and the strip #3 would become #4a,b,c, your numbering would look like - 1a 1b 1c, 2a 2b 2c, 3, 4a 4b 4c,

In VW once you create a strip from pieces and convert it to a multicircuit unit VW will number an electric automatically like I described above if you have selected the Num/Alpha option for numbering

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Works fine until you have to add the 6x16 onto a striplight pipe that's already numbered.

You now have to either re-number the entire pipe, or use a "2d" style designation, which doesn't make sense either and is why John M created the 1a system for added units to an already numbered position (LW can readily and easily re-number when done this way) as a seperate method from strips.

In truth, I've never added xtra units to my only strip/cyc pipe as I have neither the circuits nor the weight capacity.

But I can readily see the issue being a problem on plots that have mixed styles of units on a pipe, thus the A1, A2 for strips and 1, 2, 2A, 3 for fixtures makes sense. My electricians are all familar with the LW method of labeling strips and can readlily keep track as it's what's on the plot

End of thread for me....

SB

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Not true. If you add a unit to the pipe, all you have to do is use the VW renumber function Num/Alpha to renumber the pipe and it keeps the strips 1a,1b,1c and adds the new unit in as a solo number IE #2.Remember you have to have created the strips as multicircuited units. No one should get confused on the paperwork,as it lists them as strips. Also it keeps them in order in the paperwork something you won't get if they are set up as you describe. The units show up in LW not in order as they are on the position. I just had that problem with a show that came into our space. The LD labeled the strip electrics that had lekos on them - strips A1,A2,A3, and lekos 1,2,3 my ME went crazy as the order of the paperwork didn't agree with the order of the pipe. They didn't sort the color correctly and the circuiting wasn't correct.

I can'e see any advantage to doing it A1 instead of 1A

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Spotlight has always done Num/Alpha as Num.Alpha. Alpha/Num creates as AlphaNum. I am supprised LW treates NumAlpha as a multi circuit instrument. I know several designers that use the NumAlpha numbering to identify instruments that were added to the plot after it was drafted.

Instrument 1A is between instrument 1 and 2, while 1.A is part of a multi circuit instrument.

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Kevin,

Where I am having a problem is I think I have always done my strips NUM.Alpha and had them import into LW without any problems. Now with 9.5.2 & LW4 all of a sudden they come in as 1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3 even though they are 1.A,1.B,1.C on the plot. I guess I should just throw in the towel and change how I number strips. The problem is if I go to A1, A2, A3 for strips and I have single units on the position they will number 1,2,3 and import into LW out of order in the position paperwork, where as with 1A,1B, the units will number and import in correct order on the position.

Jim

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JT,

1) If memory serves, LW4 reserves the 1 dot 1 syntax for ML's, thus a potential for problems exists there...

2) I have to say that I really think you need to step back a bit an think about what you want the existing software to do for you. Note also that my comments of 4/3 were directed to LW, which is where your original post was mostly directed. My results with multi-circuit strips in VW were different then yours (a very screwed up auto-numbering scheme - and I tried very hard to "do it" correctly) and I generally do not auto-number in VW for positions such as striplights and side lights - where VW's "logic" as to how to number is not my logic. It's so simple to manually number.....

You have seemingly found a good reason to use Lightwright AND to upgrade to V4 thus I'm puzzled as to why you have a conceptual problem with what the program is capable of doing - and please don't give me a line like "I paid good money", etc... At some point the solutions that John Mc has developed can be made to work.

As example:

You're correct in that the LW Instrument Schedule will not show the assorted individual units in the correct "order", or as shown on the plot. So what !. Give the dammed electrician a copy of the plot, or at least the position itself as an individual hanging card, or some such !. I NEVER use LW instrument schedules for instance, finding a VW hang sheet or card much easier to understand. My electricians agree. What exactly do you use the position order for any way ?. It's correct in the Channnel Hookup, or at least doesn't matter and it's shown correctly on the plot !. I would think that (or versions of those) would be sufficiant.

SB

Note that I just put in a 17 hr. day, with another to follow, I'm a bit wired and testy and apologize for any perceived attitude, but cannot help wondering if maybe you used the programs as intended you might have fewer issues and might find a better solution

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Steve,

Sorry about the long day. Money isn't the issue, except when it costs me extra time with a 14 man IA crew on my clock. What is bugging me it that this seems to be a new problem that I haven't seen before.

I have been using these programs - LW since 1990 and VW or back then Mini-Cad since 1993 so I am pretty conversant with what the programs are supposed to do and how to use them. I started working with Frank Brault in 1994 to help create the lighting design component of Mini-CAD. I have been an LD for over 20 years and a couple hundred productions, so I know how to hang a show.

My ME does use the plot as the hanging cards for the electric. Now he is out doing some work on another show and an Assistant ME is at the design table with the paperwork using the Instrument Schedule to record circuits as the electricians are going down the pipes calling out citcuits..... want to guess what happened the after the patch was entered??? It took them over an hour to straighten it all out!! X 14 men X $22.00/hour

The whole point of making VW & LW interface is to make the plot and paperwork match. If they don't it is like going back to the days of manually transfering info from the plot to paperwork and all the old accuracy problems.

Now that we had been burned we will adjust. I can certainly adjust how I generate MY plots to accomdate this problem, but I get plots from every LD that sends a show into one of my theatres and the bulk of them use LW & VW so now I have to police their work and correct it. We have 4 theatres and do around 30 productions a season. We don't need the extra work.

All I want is that however the position is numbered in VW, it will be in the same order in the LW intrument schedule - not a huge request. I know we are only talking about Striplight electrics, but the show in question had 5 and at least an additional 8 lekos,etc on each pipe!!!

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JT,

As a follow on to my first private message,

LW say's this:

"You can also put the lights within each hanging position in whatever order you want, not necessarily in order by unit#.

To move lights into place, display a single hanging position (not a group of positions, and not All or any other view category) and then click in the far-left-hand edge of the Worksheet and drag each unit up or down to wherever you want it.

You can also Control-drag any single unit and all the other units in that position with the same unit# will be dragged along with it.

Once one or more units have been dragged out of their normal sorted-by-unit# position, the order will be locked and the closed lock icon will show at the bottom left-hand corner of the worksheet.

To unlock the order (thereby letting sorting happen strictly by unit#), click on the lock icon, which will then unlock.

Remember that this drag-and-lock behavior is only possible when you are looking at a single hanging position: it does not work when looking at more than one position or when viewing by any other display category:"

I tried this on an LW3 file and it works, but I have yet to run a print of the actual instrument schedule, nor have I sent to VW.

Let me know if it helps and what the affect is on the VW plot.

Steve B.

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Follow up:

I created 4 new units on my VW strip light pipe, exported ONLY those 4 new fixtures - 6x16's as units 2,4,7,& 9 (positioned as I desire ont he plot), into an existing LW3 hookup.

I then re-sorted the position as per the LW directions as Strip A1, A2, A3, 6x16/Unit 2, Strip B1, B2, B3, 6x16/Unit 4, etc... I then added channel, dimmer, color, etc to the LW data and exported successfully back to VW.

I think that may be a solution and may still allow LW3 to see Number/Alpha for strips.

Can't say for LW 4 though...

I can say that being as stubborn as we are (grin) makes the software work for us, instead of the other way around.

Steve B.

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Kevin,

Would you guys be willing talk to John and see why the NUM/APLHA 1.A, 1.B, 1.C numbering of strips is causing a problem all of a sudden with LW?? And see if it can be fixed?? Not sure it is your problem, but you have always been able to get things fixed with John.

Thanks

Jim

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Figuring out what, if any change, happened is on my list of things to check. I need to sit down with LW3 and LW4 and try to import from the same VW file with different number styles of nunbering and see what happens in each. Then I can talk to John about what is happening.

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Echoing Jim's earlier comments about how it makes sense for everyone to have strips using a numeric value, maybe LW AND Spotlight could do something along the lines of:

- Number Alpha I.E. 1A or 1a, no periods, dots or comma's for added units, prior to hitting position re-number in LW (or VW for that matter)

- Number dash Alpha, I.E. 1-A for strips, or maybe a Number Slash Alpha, I.E. 1/A which is an easier key to find (for my eyes - grin).

- Number Dot Number, I.E. 1.1 for fixtures with multiple channels per fixture.

This allows LW to keep some of the methodology it's followed since 'ye olden times (pre Vectorworks).

I'll e-mail this to John as well to see what he thinks. He'll probably come up with a perfectly logical and reasonable response as to why it won't work

Steve B.

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Steve,

You were right. Here is the last email I just got from John

Jim

Lightwright 3 accepted "1.A" and translated it to "1a", so if you exported

things from VectorWorks to LW then the unit numbers were modified that way.

When exporting back to VectorWorks, they went back as "1a", although you

might not have noticed it if VW wasn't importing the unit numbers.

Because LW4 uses decimals to mean attributes on multichannel lights, it

doesn't understand what to do with a number such as 1.A, so it says "OK,

that's unit 1, with an attribute I don't understand, so I'll just take it as

unit 1".

So far, out of all the users of Lw4, you're apparently the only one who

numbers their striplights this way, or at least the only one who's asked me

about it. I just wish that Kevin Linzey (the Spotlight product manager - and

a Lightwright 4 beta tester) had mentioned it during last summer's beta

testing...

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