LW IDs scrambling

[seaghan42]

I'm having a frustrating problem.

Now that I've upgraded to SL 10.5 and LW 4.0.3, I'm having an issue with some fixtures swapping data with each other. It seems like the Lightwright IDs are getting scrambled somewhere.

I have noticed that when I choose "Import > Instrument Data" I get the usual dialog. After I have browsed to the correct data file and chosen "extrernal ID" as the identifier, I get the usual incoming data field on the left. However, there are TWO Lightwright ID fields. There are also two LW ID fields on the right to link to. I link both sets together and everything seems okay.

Of course, once I begin poking around in my plot, I can usually find a number of fixtures which are mismatched.

I just today tried exporting my LW4 file to LW3 and using the older automated actions to create the data file. Same results, so I'm pretty sure it's an issue with Spotlight.

Anyone else have any scrambling like this show up? I never saw it working in LW3 and Spolight 9.5. I really hate to downgrade to maintain accuracy. Both software packages have made some really great improvements.

[klinzey]

If Lightwright ID and LW ID are the last items displayed in the list select the first of the two. It's a display problem with the dialog, the second set isn't realy there. If you still have a problem sent the VW file and the exported LW file to tech@nemetschek.net and I will take a look at it.

[ 03-03-2004, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: klinzey ]

[Steve B.]

Can't speak for LW4, have yet to find a reason to upgrade and would prefer to see a few more versions get de-bugged, but as to LW3,

I've been steadily using LW3s and VW Spotlight 10.5 since Oct. with countless import/exports and with only a few stray errors.

I don't map suff that's not important and I've yet to discover a use for the LW ID, thus I don't map it (what is it anyway ?). Try not mapping the LW ID's, only matching the External ID from LW - which itself is the UID that VW generated when you created the plot and imported into LW, to the UID in the VW mapping field. It helps to create a saved mapping field as well.

Try it a few times in LW3 only and see if you get better results, then move over to LW4 and see what happens.

Steve B.

[klinzey]

Steve,

LW ID id LW unique ID Field. Not maping this field makes LW work harder when you import into an existing LW file. If the LW ID field matches, LW knows the instruments are the same. If there is no LW ID, LW guesses by looking at other information to see if the instruments are the same. If you don't use the LW ID Field you are more likely to find duplicate instruments in LW.

[Steve B.]

Well, a good bit of playing around found me wishing I had done the playing prior to hitting send on my post, as my mapping fields in both LW and VW had the LW ID selected. For whatever reasons, I've seemingly had terrific luck importing and exporting to and from VW and LW, probably beginners luck at that....

But....

While playing around, I see no real reference in LW to what exactly the Lightwright ID is or does, not that I don't trust or believe Kevins reply.

I could not find those ID numbers. Note that I am refering to Lightwright ID numbers, NOT the External ID's that VW generated and that are displayed in LW3 as a non-editable column.

I just got done doing multiple imports to VW from LW, with and without the LW ID filed, mapped with no bad results. I am always able to successfully import assorted information into their respective fields in VW.

What Kevin refers to as then importing BACK to LW certainly confuses LW, creating a duplicate set of units, but the LW ID field seemingly had no bearing on this, as far as I could determine.

Once I create the initial plot and export VW to LW, then having edited and exported the LW file back to VW, I would then have no real reason to once again send it back to LW. If I've done all that's needed in LW, -error check, color order, etc... the information going to the plot should be correct, and I wouldn't at that point be sending it back to LW, thus no duplicate units as per Kevins comments. In the event that I need to add units, I will add in VW, save, then delete all but the added units, export to LW, with the import adding only those new units and no duplication. It seems that any import to an existing LW file can create duplication, LW ID's present or not.

Am I doing it the hard way ?, and/or what am I missing, and an apololgy to seaghan42 as this still may not solve the problem ( or maybe it does).

SB

[seaghan42]

Steve,

True. If you look for the LW ID in your the LW app, you won't see it anywhere. Mr. McKernon doesn't want you messing around with that, so it's never visible, unlike External ID. It's there though. You can see it in your Object Info pallette in VW.

As far as duplicate instruments are concerned, that often happens if you import instrument data instead of merging data. The same thing would happen if you imported instead of merging two versions of a LW show file. It seems like you've found a decent workaround, but I'd check out merging. It'll save you time.

Until I had the problems I mention, I always used the Automated Actions that came with Spotlight. Granted, they haven't been updated for Spotlight 10 and LW 4. The Import, Export, and Merge actions always worked fine.

I often go back and forth between LW and VW during the course of a show as I keep the plot updated, adding units in both directions. Of course, since my latest 900+ unit show just scrambled it's data, I've really got to find out what's going on.

Jtallen from this list just sent me some mapping files which he's made up for LW4, so I'll try them soon and let you guys know what happens.

Wish me luck.....

seaghan42

[Steve B.]

Well indeed there is a Lightwright ID Number !, Odd that I had to search in Vectorworks to find it. I would think having it available in a non-editable column, similar to External ID might be useful and would help identify duplication. Is it viewable in LW4 ?.

Still, it makes me wonder if it has the purpose that Kevin describes, of telling LW what to match up, as I had the same results while importing with or without the LW ID.

As to merging, I use it all the time, but for some reason LW will not merge External ID's. Only Import/Export deals with external ID's, thus it's only useful (to me) for adding stuff into the hookup that I don't need VW to deal with, house lights, spotting light, etc... though I do merge a LW non-UID file with just Ch/Dim/Color/Purpose into a LW file with Extenal ID's provided the LW vocabulary is the same for instrument type and position names. Perhaps this is where the LW ID get used, though without being able to see it, it's impossible to then tell how well something will merge.

With or without the LW ID number, an import into LW can create duplicate instruments in an existing file, thus I will only import something new after I've got the two programs in sync. Am I missing something here Kevin ?.

I too go back and forth with updates, although I always add new units in VW as that's where the UID gets generated and find VW cumbersome to convert an orphaned unit created in LW into a real unit/symbol.

Still, try not mapping the LW ID and see what results.

Also, Any good reason to get LW4 yet ?.

Steve B.

[Steve B.]

Hmmm....

Lot's of thoughts running thru my head.... Old Dog, New Tricks (poorly learned).... RTFM..... Ouch, (that's my hand smacking the side of my head, for the umpteenth time)....

Even thought this generated into a discussion of LW, I thank you Kevin for setting me straight, and confess that I indeed learned a ton.

And an apology to Seaghan42 for not being of more help.

Anybody know of an LW forum ?.

SB

[klinzey]

From the LW3 manual page 147:

"Lightwright 3 will first attempt to match lights during a merge based on it's internal ID numbers (which you don't ever see),

then by external ID, then by position & unit#, then position and purpose, and finally by purpose. It will scan the file being

brought in to see which of these methods are possible and then advise you of what it's going to do."

[seaghan42]

No need to apologize, dude...

I'm very interested in other's experiences with this data management.

Now if Nemetscek would just update the LW Automated Actions to reflect LW4's new data structure, like symbol and accessory management, I'd be a happy boy.

Klinzey, do you know where I could register a request like that?

[klinzey]

The only reason I know how LW works is that I have to make sure Spotlight works with LW. Full compatibility with LW4 high on the wishlist. It's a lot more complicated then just a new automated action file.