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edit workgroup reference in place?


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You could achieve this through a simple -even if not obvious- VectorScript.

If I might make an observation, this is not the way VW is meant to function. Make the best out of what VW has to offer you, which is not little, and use it at it's full potential, which is enormous. smile.gif

You'll soon be glad to be off Acad.

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Why do you want to edit the information in the original file?

Is it not a situation that you can't open the file and make the changes in the file?

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(to Katie) You're replying to me or am I wrong? If you are, yes, I don't see any need for doing nothing else, but open the file and edit it. It functions brillantly for me.

Absolutely no need for weird tricks.

Edited by _c_
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

orso, you can use the isLayerReferenced() call to get the pathname of a referenced layer, but how do you make changes to a file that is not the currently open file? If you're talking about some kind of kludge where you actually copy, open the (referenced) file, change files, go to layer, select all, unlock, delete, paste in place, close, and hope you're back where you began.... well, you can do that, but it's not a script that would be 100% reliable, and therefore not advisable at a commercial level.

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let's see... the reason I want to do this...

when I make a change on say, a detail at 3"=1' on a detail sheet, or the location of a stair on an enlarged plan, it would be lovely to have the original model update with that change without the redundancy of changing everything twice for consistency. Katie and Robert, I would love to get your advice on this. thanks.

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If you make a change to an item that is referenced into the drawing, the update isn't saved. The only way to save a change is to do so in the original file.

The idea is that the file that is referenced in has the information needed to be shared with other projects. Any time that information needs to be changed, it's changed in the same centralized location - the original file.

If you had the chance to change the referenced data, then the original wouldn't be sync'd nor would anyone else that may be referencing that original file into another drawing.

The VW philosophy lets you change it in one place so you don't have to change it all over the place in multiple files, and reduces room for error.

When the references are updated, the changes will too be updated.

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While I understand Katie's point, one way to bridge a middle ground would be the ability to have the option to open up the original reference file to edit. This would be very similar to the ability to enter into the design layer in a viewport option. We still origanize our projects in a manner based on an Autocad approach- with base files and sheet files. I usually just end up with an 'xref' file and a 'sheet' file open when I am updating notes, etc. on a detail drawing. Autocad provided a feature to allow you to make these edits in a sheet file and 'force save' the changes back to the original doc. I never really took advantage of this feature when I was using that program. Sometimes it would be nice to enter right into the design layers of the referenced file instead of having to track it down. Anyway, I still feel that layer linking is a workaround when VW really needs some more robust refercing capabilities to fully compete with the other big alternatives. This ability listed above is one of many potential improvements that the program could benefit from. Xclipping, easy Xmoving, UCS rotation, are a couple still on my list.

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One thing the VW philosophy also does is attempt to force you into a one-man show, as Katie implies (only one person can update one file).

This is an impediment for us with regard to Building Information Modelling (BIM), because it makes it difficult to have multiple people working on one job.

I would like to see a change of tack with regard to this philosophy (or at least an indepth debate about it). Ultimately, although I haven't thought about the implications indepth, I'd like to be able to work in an environment where you can isolate any part of the building maybe by Sheet Layer(s), Layer(s), Class(s), Viewports and Saved Views and allocate these to different people to work on.

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Autocad provided a feature to allow you to make these edits in a sheet file and 'force save' the changes back to the original doc. I never really took advantage of this feature when I was using that program.

I tried it once and it seemed awkward and lended itself to making random changes which didn't get reflected in the red-marks. It is useful if the boss is looking over your shoulder and making last minute changes before final plot.

I'd like to be able to work in an environment where you can isolate any part of the building maybe by Sheet Layer(s), Layer(s), Class(s), Viewports and Saved Views and allocate these to different people to work on.

Would it be difficult to keep track of the work being done by many people on the same file? Using the BIM approach, can you still break the job down into separate files for each sheet, and then have one person per sheet?

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Would it be difficult to keep track of the work being done by many people on the same file?

I think that depends entirely upon how the interface is designed.

Using the BIM approach, can you still break the job down into separate files for each sheet, and then have one person per sheet?

There are ways to do it but the way VW currently works you end up simply creating more work for yourself, plus it's easy for things to go wrong (which defeats much of the purpose in my opinion).

What I'm asking for is not a trivial matter but I imagine it's going to be the natural roadmap for BIM. A metaphor would be the ability to have many builders working on a building at once; why not many draughtpersons working a digital model at once? The biggest advantage, from my point of view, between this approach and current conventional CAD practice is that you are all working on the same thing and all your info comes from the same source, as opposed to creating disparate bits of information and trying to make them correlate (an age old draughting problem).

P.S. to quote someone on the forum just click on "Quote" instead of "Reply"

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A quick comment on the BIM issues. We have a new guy in our office who used to use Revit (BIM software). We have been discussing the advantages and challenges of the BIM approach. One core capability that he described in Revit (and I think ArchiCad has it too) is the ability to partition off part of a model/building/file for an individual user to work on while other people have access to other parts of the file. We work on a range of project sizes, and there are reasonably often occurrances when this would be an important, if not crucial capability we would need in order to use the full BIM approach.

My other comment is regarding the referencing capabilities that VW offers. I feel that they are really geared towards projects that use a BIM approach that VW is trying to promote. While I respect and understand that approach, one thing I have always appreciated about VW is its flexibility. More robust file referencing controls would allow users the capabilities to setup and handle projects in a variety of fashions, some much more similar to Autocad's typical method. While it is not for everyone, the flexibility would be really nice. I also think the increased functionality would really benefit users that work in other setups. I have a hunch there are many VW users who don't know what they're missing in terms of some of these issues because they either have never had the option presented to them, or have integrated workarounds into their practice without ever realising they're workarounds.

I don't want to position myself as some kind of CAD expert, but I have work for several years on both Microstation and Autocad. I have also used VW for several years before and after those stints. I have always tried to voice my thoughts of how VW could and should consider helpful features of competitors' programs in order to make VW a continued outstanding product. Referecing still remains one crucial area where great strides could be made to assist in handling bigger, more complex, and or more repetitive projects in VW.

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One core capability that he described in Revit (and I think ArchiCad has it too) is the ability to partition off part of a model/building/file for an individual user to work on while other people have access to other parts of the file.

Something similar can be done in VW, but not on the fly. For example, each level or section of a building could be presaved as a separate file. Then different drafters could work on each portion.

These separate files would be wg referenced into a sheet drawing which would be just a collection of ref'd drawings and would have no line work of its own, except possibly the title block info.

Once the sheet drawing is properly set up, I don't see why things could go wrong, especially if one person is in charge of setting up the sheets.

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David,

I agree what you are suggesting will work, but we just switched from that approach to putting all plans in one file. One reason is that we found it reduced the extra work having to reference multiple files to get an entire building into different files. Not that that's the end of the world, but one complaint we have is how much setup work goes into referencing and layer linking to get different things coordinated in different files. We also don't currently use a full BIM approach which hopefully would simplify this. We are strongly considering moving that direction.

One suggestion for future improvements to VW would be the ability to lockoff or reserve a layer in a file for someone else to work on. That would probably be the most understandable way to handle it, and allow for a more usable interface if an entire building/project is to reside in one file.

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