Wall Components Consistently Disappear when associating with roof styles

[Todd W]

Hello,

 

I am using VW 2025 and when modeling roofs and walls I am consistently having trouble with components disappearing when I click to associate walls to roofs. Screenshot attached. I do not use stories I am generally setting the wall heights a little higher than the top-most height and clipping them with the roof components. Does anyone know how to fix this? The components that disappear seem random.

 

[Christiaan]

Hi Todd, what are you expecting to see in that screenshot?

[Todd W]

Hi Christiaan,

 

Thanks for your reply. The interior wall that shows as pink is missing the gypsum board, exposing the insulation. In this case the gyp has disappeared. Same with the "brown"  of the OSB - it should show the outer membrane. I hope that makes sense.

 

I have several other instances where components disappear when associating walls. In top/plan view, the components still show as existing in wireframe view, they just do not appear in shaded view.

[Christiaan]

Can you post a simplified copy of the file with that offending wall connected to the roof?

[Tom W.]

I have seen this happen too (Wall components disappearing). It was something to do with Wall joins perpendicular to the Roof i.e. internal partition meeting external wall at the eaves. I think I had to use the Edit Wall tool to remove some of the top Wall Peaks: the internal partition had been raised up to the Roof using Fit Walls to Objects + this had resulted in a complex arrangement of peaks at the eaves where the Wall attempted to match the underside of the Roof components (which were staggered) but once cleaned up it the components came back.

 

I agree with @Christiaan it is very hard to tell from your screenshot @Todd W what's happening in your case. It would be better to include some labels pointing to the anomalies so it's crystal clear to people what's going on.

[Christiaan]

A vwx file with the offending wall + roof would be best.

[Todd W]

Thank you both Christiaan and Tom W! Tom you are correct I should have marked this. Please find the model file attached. I did fix the wall where the gyp disappeared, but you can see the garage wall where the membrane is gone from 3D view - it still exists in top/plan view so not sure why it does not show up.

 

The roof insulation is the same. For the main roof, when I associated the outer walls with the roof the insulation "disappeared" in 3D view.

 

Generally I am not a fan of "fit walls" because the walls that run perpendicular to the roof plane do not fit at an angle (unless there is a way I do not know about?)

 

Thank you in advance.  Todd WDCL #1-2025-1031-MODEL ONLY.vwx

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, Todd W said:

Thank you both Christiaan and Tom W! Tom you are correct I should have marked this. Please find the model file attached. I did fix the wall where the gyp disappeared, but you can see the garage wall where the membrane is gone from 3D view - it still exists in top/plan view so not sure why it does not show up.

 

The roof insulation is the same. For the main roof, when I associated the outer walls with the roof the insulation "disappeared" in 3D view.

 

Generally I am not a fan of "fit walls" because the walls that run perpendicular to the roof plane do not fit at an angle (unless there is a way I do not know about?)

 

Thank you in advance.  Todd WDCL #1-2025-1031-MODEL ONLY.vwx

 

Do you mean this wall?:

 

When I disassociate the Roof (+ reset the Wall) the membrane appears:

 

Have no idea why this should be but suspect it's something to do with those side walls. If I Remove Wall Breaks for those Walls + delete top wall peaks for the first wall that also causes the membrane to display, without disassociating the wall from the roof. Very annoying. I do find roof clipping etc a bit touch + go + will be very happy when Roofs get some attention.

[Todd W]

thanks - i've found the wall association to be a critical feature for me but very glitchy - I thought maybe there was something I was missing about the functions...

[Christiaan]

Todd, in this particular case—the missing membrane on the garage wall—I'm not sure the problem is with roof associations. It looks like a problem with the two adjacent perpendicular wall joins, as Tom alludes to. If you delete both these walls, the membrane reappears. If you reduce the garage wall height to 8'4", the membrane reappears.

 

It's looks like some kind of bug whereby the garage wall doesn't like the fact that it's a different height than the adjoining perpendicular walls, most likely involving some interplay with the component offsets.

 

If you come across further examples, upload the file again and we'll take a look. I'll submit a bug report on this, but it would be good to get further examples, and any examples where the roof association is causing the problem.

In the mean time, a crude workaround for that wall if you need it, is to change the garage wall height to 8' 4" and then add a 1' 7 3/8" offset to the top of the framing and gypsum components to bring them back up to the correct height. As attached file.

DCL #1-2025-1031-MODEL ONLY.vwx

[Tom W.]

28 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

I'm not sure the problem is with roof association

 

Do you not find that if you disassociate the roof + run Move 0,0 on the Wall the membrane appears? (As an alternative to doing the stuff to the side walls which also works).

[Christiaan]

2 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

Do you not find that if you disassociate the roof + run Move 0,0 on the Wall the membrane appears? (As an alternative to doing the stuff to the side walls which also works).

Oh yes, it's the reset I wasn't doing. That also works. And the reset also highlights the fact that the wall sheathing and membrane component Wall Top offset are set to a distance above the roof object, so that's the problem I was resolving when I reduced the wall height to 8'4"; it brings those components down under the roof object. For whatever reason, having objects above the roof object can cause problems.

So it's not the wall association that's the problem as such, but the fact that there are wall components that extend above the roof object (before they're clipped). There seems to be a number of conditions that need to come together to trigger this problem though, including that the two adjacent perpendicular walls are joined to the wall.

So, for instance, a better fix than the one I suggested in my previous post is to change the sheathing and membrane component top offset from 2' 7" to a maximum of 1'.592", which is the max height of the components to stay under the roof object. Fix attached.

 

It should be said that this is ultimately a problem with the way Roof objects behave. It shouldn't actually matter to them that an object extends above the roof, but it does, for now at least. Maybe this behaviour will eventually go away as part of the wall and roof modernisation efforts.

DCL #1-2025-1031-MODEL ONLY-2.vwx

[E|FA]

4 hours ago, Christiaan said:

It's looks like some kind of bug whereby the garage wall doesn't like the fact that it's a different height than the adjoining perpendicular walls, most likely involving some interplay with the component offsets.

 

This looks like something @Matt Panzer might be interested in looking at.

[Todd W]

Thank you both for the info and solutions. After looking at all the options I went with a different solution:  I stopped the perpendicular walls 1/16" from the garage wall. The membrane came back and it looks/works fine.

[Christiaan]

5 hours ago, Todd W said:

Thank you both for the info and solutions. After looking at all the options I went with a different solution:  I stopped the perpendicular walls 1/16" from the garage wall. The membrane came back and it looks/works fine.

Todd, just bear in mind that the root problem, I think, is that there were wall components set to be above the roof height. To avoid this problem in the future, make sure any wall and wall component height settings are set to be below the roof height.

 

[Todd W]

Thank you - i've adjusted these. 👍