Hull design in 3D

[DB_yachts]

Hi. I want to develop my 2D designs for model yacht hulls into 3D. Ultimately for 3D printing. Initially though to get a 3D visual to rotate and refine. Has anyone successfully done this or can anyone suggest how to connect hull ‘contours’   I’m still a beginner with 3D 

[Christiaan]

@VIRTUALENVIRONS will be your man.

[Tom W.]

Or @Claes Lundstrom

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

@DB_yachts  Sail or power?

[DB_yachts]

12 hours ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

@DB_yachts  Sail or power?

Sail. Model yacht 1m long

[Claes Lundstrom]

Have about 80 realized professional boat design projects and between 1000 and 2000 built. The picture shows a 3D lapstrake printed model and it's augmented reality sister. Same model, different media. 

 

 

[Tom W.]

1 minute ago, Claes Lundstrom said:

Have about 80 realized professional boat design projects and between 1000 and 2000 built. The picture shows a 3D lapstrake printed model and it's augmented reality sister. Same model, different media. 

 

 

 

Do you do it all in VW or use other software/s? 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

I have some experience modelling boats, both above and below water and also 3D printing.  Having said that, you are looking at a significant learning curve in any program, but one that is worthwhile doing if your field is outside of Architecture. 

 

There are no hybrid boat tools, so just Fundamentals.  Boat hulls are modelled essentially the way you would build them,  The word "loft" in terms of 3D comes from the shipbuilding world.  Lofting cross sections together.

 

To get some help, you will need to explain further and show some pictures of similar boats you are interested in modelling.

 

Some of my models below:

 

The first image is modelled and rendered in Vectorworks, the rest modelled in Vectorworks and rendered in CINEMA 4D

 

SUPERYACHT RENDERED IN VECTORWORKS CIRCA 2015

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

19 hours ago, DB_yachts said:

Hi. I want to develop my 2D designs for model yacht hulls into 3D. Ultimately for 3D printing. Initially though to get a 3D visual to rotate and refine. Has anyone successfully done this or can anyone suggest how to connect hull ‘contours’   I’m still a beginner with 3D 

Just out of curiosity, why Vectorworks for this?  There are specialist programs for boats or numerous Rhino resources for making this type of work easier and parametric.  I’m not knocking VWX, you can certainly model a boat with it, it’s just easier and faster in other programs when it comes to design iteration, adjustment, documentation, and manufacturing/making.  Look at what schools and industry uses if you aren’t married to VWX…

 

When I was in Maine, I spent a lot of time talking with boat building students because I thought it would be a fun thing to learn about and perhaps build my own wood boat at some point.  All the schools in the area used Rhino and Solidworks, none used VWX.  There are a lot of things boat building and landscape architecture share in terms of defining constructed surfaces as it turns out.

[Claes Lundstrom]

1 hour ago, Jeff Prince said:

Just out of curiosity, why Vectorworks for this?  There are specialist programs for boats or numerous Rhino resources for making this type of work easier and parametric.  I’m not knocking VWX, you can certainly model a boat with it, it’s just easier and faster in other programs when it comes to design iteration, adjustment, documentation, and manufacturing/making.  Look at what schools and industry uses if you aren’t married to VWX…

 

When I was in Maine, I spent a lot of time talking with boat building students because I thought it would be a fun thing to learn about and perhaps build my own wood boat at some point.  All the schools in the area used Rhino and Solidworks, none used VWX.  There are a lot of things boat building and landscape architecture share in terms of defining constructed surfaces as it turns out.

 

Just out of curiosity, I have spent a lot of time watching YouTube videos in apps like Solidworks, Fusion 360, Rhino, FreeCAD, Blender, Shapr, Freeship, Delftship, MaxSurf, etc. Can't say that I have been impressed with what I have found. 

 

These movies seem to be divided into three groups, first those who copy somebody else's drawings. Making a copy of somebody else's designs is not really boat design, it's just modeling skills, without knowing much about boat design. The second group, trying to free form design boats, illustrates how badly the standard CAD programs work. It's seldom impressive. The third group use parametric features, which can work ok I guess, but tends to generate rather dull close variations of the same theme.

 

The biggest weakness of the standard CAD programs is that they lack marine design specific features such as proper dynamic cross sectioning, which is a key tool in hull fairing, hydrostatics, weight and center of gravity and stability calculations, practical functions of the boat, etc. All these functions are key features that you calculate and evaluate throughout the design process. 

 

Personally, I always use a dedicated boat design program, and use VW mainly for documentation, 2D drafting, and when I need solid modeling. It just works better. 

 

As for Vectorworks, yes, it fits into the standard CAD category. In that category, it does some things OK. You can have interpolated control points, which you can't do in Rhino as far as I can tell without being an expert user on it. VW's biggest flaw, as I see it, is the inability to edit more than one NURBS object at the time. In my boat design app, I can edit any number of controls in any number of objects at the same time, and that makes a huge difference when you have say 500 or 1000 NURBS surfaces in a model. Another flaw is that you for some strange reason can't nudge NURBS control points like you can with meshes. Why? Why? Why? Very frustrating, as real boat design typically consists of hours of micro adjustments. 

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, Claes Lundstrom said:

 

Just out of curiosity, I have spent a lot of time watching YouTube videos in apps like Solidworks, Fusion 360, Rhino, FreeCAD, Blender, Shapr, Freeship, Delftship, MaxSurf, etc. Can't say that I have been impressed with what I have found. 

 

These movies seem to be divided into three groups, first those who copy somebody else's drawings. Making a copy of somebody else's designs is not really boat design, it's just modeling skills, without knowing much about boat design. The second group, trying to free form design boats, illustrates how badly the standard CAD programs work. It's seldom impressive. The third group use parametric features, which can work ok I guess, but tends to generate rather dull close variations of the same theme.

 

The biggest weakness of the standard CAD programs is that they lack marine design specific features such as proper dynamic cross sectioning, which is a key tool in hull fairing, hydrostatics, weight and center of gravity and stability calculations, practical functions of the boat, etc. All these functions are key features that you calculate and evaluate throughout the design process. 

 

Personally, I always use a dedicated boat design program, and use VW mainly for documentation, 2D drafting, and when I need solid modeling. It just works better. 

 

As for Vectorworks, yes, it fits into the standard CAD category. In that category, it does some things OK. You can have interpolated control points, which you can't do in Rhino as far as I can tell without being an expert user on it. VW's biggest flaw, as I see it, is the inability to edit more than one NURBS object at the time. In my boat design app, I can edit any number of controls in any number of objects at the same time, and that makes a huge difference when you have say 500 or 1000 NURBS surfaces in a model. Another flaw is that you for some strange reason can't nudge NURBS control points like you can with meshes. Why? Why? Why? Very frustrating, as real boat design typically consists of hours of micro adjustments. 

I’m not sure why you are asking me, you are the undisputed master.  If I were a professional boat designer, I would use a specialist program, as I mentioned, for the reasons I mentioned, which you reiterated.  So are we agreeing 😉

Have you looked into Orca3D for Rhino?  That’s what they were teaching to the boat designers up in Maine.  I was asked to teach an intro class in 3D modeling since I knew Rhino, but declined since they wanted me to learn Orca to teach it, which I figured would have been time consuming and useless to me beyond teaching a one time course.  I don’t know anything about that package other than that.

 

3 hours ago, Jeff Prince said:

it’s just easier and faster in other programs when it comes to design iteration, adjustment, documentation, and manufacturing/making.

Anyhow, maybe the @DB_yachts has very good reasons for using VWX, which is what I’m interested in knowing.  I tend to learn a great deal from observing other disciplines, sometimes shaking up my approach within my own profession.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Vectorworks knows it can match and/or exceed most programs in 3D modelling.  They have known this for many years.  There are many aspects of 3D modelling in VW's that are simply not known to VW's itself.  The modules were acquired with only the basic instructions I am assuming.  

 

The most common mistake I have found when working with either the company itself or individuals is the idea that the 2D tool pallet, 3D tool pallet, Power Pack and Standard 3D tools are individual modules.  They are not, they all work together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

@DB_yachts  Hello?

[Scott C. Parker]

I'm loving this conversation. 
From a former life 🙂

 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

5 minutes ago, Scott C. Parker said:

From a former life

What class is the boat?  Looks like that might have been a while ago.

 

This was mine until Covid came and we moved to the country.

 

[Christiaan]

I'm guessing it's a hobby, he already has VW, and doesn't want to splash out on a specialist app.

[Scott C. Parker]

32 minutes ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

What class is the boat?

I was Captain of the "Presidents" yacht in the late 80's doing charters in NYC. This was well after she served JFK as the "Honey Fitz." 
https://www.superyachttimes.com/yacht-news/honey-fitz-yacht-history
Great fun on a splendid boat.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

24 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

I'm guessing it's a hobby, he already has VW, and doesn't want to splash out on a specialist app.

There is a company near me that builds military/law enforcement boats for Canada and America.  They use Rhino as the Marine Module is very slick, but they were very interested in VW's based on the Super Yacht and Speed boat above.  Essentially, when it comes to making hulls, the process in Rhino or VW's is very similar.

 

 

 

 

[Steve S.]

4 hours ago, Claes Lundstrom said:

As for Vectorworks, yes, it fits into the standard CAD category. In that category, it does some things OK. You can have interpolated control points, which you can't do in Rhino as far as I can tell without being an expert user on it.

Rhino has a INTERPOLATE POINTS CURVE and a HANDLE CURVE.

The HANDLE CURVE is a bezier style tool with the teeter totter handles, where there are control points COINCIDENT to the curve

The interpolate points curve, at the time of creation, places points that are coincident to the curve — but upon finishing the use of this tool, it converts to a nurbs. But the curve will be right where you clicked.

Rhino has the ability to convert a nurbs to a Bézier where the points will be on the curve

Rhino also has a FAIR CURVE tool where you can adjust the tolerance of how much you want the curve to be smoothed.

And Rhino also has a REBUILD command where you can adjust the amount of points and degree of the curve.

Rhino also has Zebra analysis of surfaces

Rhino has Curvature Graph (curvature combs) for analyzing continuity

Grasshopper also has a lot of nodes for parametric curves and surfaces, and the analysis of such

 

Rhino used in the making of the below —

https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/fea-facilitates-custom-megayacht-design

 

The course Yacht 3D Modeling with Rhino. Level 1 is endorsed by the Royal Institution of Naval Architects

https://navalapp.com/courses/yacht-3d-modeling-with-rhino-level-1/

 

 

 

Edited October 29 by Steve S.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

@Steve S.   Some of the things you listed are actually available in VW's.  There may also be functions not available in Rhino.

 

 When I get pulled out of retirement, it isn't for VW's, it's for the Rhino's, Blender's, C4D's of the world.  

 

For example, Rhino has a tutorial on how to make a "buckminsterfullerene" or Bucky ball, 20 hexagons and 12 pentagons.  I had a client who needed a spherical version.  This is a stretch for a lot of software.

 

Bucky Ball Video Wall

 

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

3 hours ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

When I get pulled out of retirement, it isn't for VW's, it's for the Rhino's, Blender's

Well, in all fairness, you don’t know those packages 😉

[Christiaan]

So how do you model a sail boat hull, model yacht 1m long?

[Steve S.]

1 hour ago, Christiaan said:

So how do you model a sail boat hull, model yacht 1m long?

 

I might consider 3D printing

Elegoo has a printer for $2700 with a big enough print volume

An associate of mine raves over Elegoo printers, so I might give that printer a try

 

https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/elegoo-orangestorm-giga-high-speed-large-format-3d-printer-kit/sk/MSRLJXF4

 

[Steve S.]

And if that printer was still not big enough, then maybe an elongated printer would do the trick

 

https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/modix-big-120x-v4-3d-printer-kit/sk/MTPRRVG8

 

https://www.matterhackers.com/store/c/large-volume-3d-printers?srsltid=AfmBOoqhV-4yj46dyox-N3rWXPn0i8KG8Z-fHr7NclPxSA7e74uX2xeb

[Christiaan]

I meant, how do you model it in Vectorworks, which was the original poster's question.