Finding length of rotated 3d Object

[cberg]

Easy(?) question.  Is there a function that will help determine the overall length of a rotated 3d solid?  The object in question is a 3D section.    

 

Pulling curves off a round extrude (or snapping to edges of cylindrical objects) is difficult in VW.  The only way I can find the "out-to-out" length is to find the dimension it in the annotations space of a section viewport.  This seems counter-intuitive given Vectorwork's focus on analytics and data.  

 

That said, the OIP is incorrect, and the AEC 3D Properties, does not yield the desired results.

 

Is there an easier way to do this?

 

 

 

 

 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

What I do in this situation is extract an Isoparm.  It will produce two curves normally, one length and one cross section.  Ungroup, select the length, and check the OIP for length.

[cberg]

Is this the function you are referring to?  If so, there is no way to snap the iso curve location, which somewhat defeats the purpose....  I can ungroup, move and stretch the line...  But it is a little cumbersome, and prone to snapping errors.  

 

It is surprising that there is not a better, one-step process to find the overall length of a 3d object.  Especially with Vectorworks' promise of instant, 3d data.  In general the 3d curve tools feel a little limited and outdated.

 

 

 

[EAlexander]

I know this sounds dumb, but what about the tape measure tool?

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

@cberg  Yes, that is extract Isoparm.   I am afraid that is all I can help with.  Perhaps others who work in this area have a better solution.

 

 

[cberg]

The tape measure tool does not yield accurate results.  

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, cberg said:

Is there an easier way to do this?

 

I don't think so.

If you think about it, about the only thing defining the geometry that is related to your interest is a Bounding Box, but even that is not accurate in this situation.

I think you are stuck with:

using a viewport

or

orientating the working plane to your object of interest and constructing some helper geometry to define the out-to-out length of the pipe (sounds like a lot more work).

[Tom W.]

2 hours ago, cberg said:

Easy(?) question.  Is there a function that will help determine the overall length of a rotated 3d solid?  The object in question is a 3D section.    

 

Pulling curves off a round extrude (or snapping to edges of cylindrical objects) is difficult in VW.  The only way I can find the "out-to-out" length is to find the dimension it in the annotations space of a section viewport.  This seems counter-intuitive given Vectorwork's focus on analytics and data.  

 

That said, the OIP is incorrect, and the AEC 3D Properties, does not yield the desired results.

 

Is there an easier way to do this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Structural Member will return its length but measured to the centre which I can see is not what you want...

 

 

(my doc units are mm)

[cberg]

It goes back to the question of the bounding box delimiting the object vs some screen-oriented abstraction....

 

@Tom W. I don't think the length of your structural member would be correct.  If one were to cut that shape out of steel (or any material), you would need to measure the piece from long edge to long edge, because the tapered bits are created out of a longer piece.  The dimension is taken at the centerline....

 

@Jeff Prince I think you are correct, that the only way to find this dimension is by cutting a section, and overdrawing/dimensioning it in a sheet layer.  

 

Thanks for the help!

 

 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

@cberg. Just out of interest, can you post this part.  I 

[Pat Stanford]

Another possibility similar to cutting a section would be to use the 2025 object visibility functions.

 

Select the pipe.

Choose the Show Selected Object Only option (I have these in my object right click menu.

Add a working plane to the side of the object.

Look at Working Plane.

Measure as necessary. Or make a standard viewport if you need to keep the dimension for later.

[cberg]

Piece.vwx

[Tom W.]

15 minutes ago, cberg said:

@Tom W. I don't think the length of your structural member would be correct.  If one were to cut that shape out of steel (or any material), you would need to measure the piece from long edge to long edge, because the tapered bits are created out of a longer piece.  The dimension is taken at the centerline....

 

Correct. It was more to say that I think this is as close as you're going to get as far as "Vectorworks' promise of instant, 3d data" is concerned... I would agree that dimensioning a drawing has got to be the way to go. Out of interest, if you could extract the overall length data from the object rather than dimensioning it, what would you do with that data? I mean how would you convey that info to whoever you need to convey it to + why would it be better done that way rather than via a dimensioned drawing? Or is it more a matter of just needing to access the dimension quickly yourself without going through the faff of creating a VP?

[cberg]

I put the data into a record format so that I can develop piece sheets & order totals for fabrication.  Maybe a little beyond the scope of VW.  Sadly there is no good way to automate the process.

 

Edited May 30, 2025 by cberg

[Jeff Prince]

@cberg Just out of curiosity, why do you need that dimension?

 

If you need to be accurate, you could extract the outer face and then use the Unfold Surfaces command since your part is a developable surface.

This would result in 2d "wrapper" you could measure, but is more work than using a viewport or working plane.

 

Still, I wonder what the value of such accuracy is, it looks like you are modeling a handrail and trying to figure out how long the pipe will need to be prior to cutting.

If that's the case, the fabricator is not measuring to the 1/100th of an Inch.

 

 

 

 

[Tom W.]

7 minutes ago, cberg said:

I put the data into a record format so that I can develop piece sheets & order totals for fabrication.  Maybe a little beyond the scope of VW.  Sadly there is not good way to automate the process.

 

 

You can return the start/end bevel angles + the profile size of a Structural Member + someone cleverer + more patient than me could I'm sure work out how to return the overall length based on that info... 😃

[cberg]

Agreed. 

 

It would also be great to pull a line off a cylandrical extrude, which seems like a much more modest ask.  :-).  Thanks for all the help!

[Jeff Prince]

@cberg I posted at the same time as you I guess.  So, you are trying to determine the length of material prior to cutting correct?

If so, the best way to solve this is by keeping the centerline of your pipe and using pipefitting calculations.  The formula you are looking for is called a Miter Cutback and relies on the pipe's OD and the angle of the handrail.  You could take the cutback value for each end of the pipe and add it to the centerline of your pipe to get the required length of stock needed for fabrication.  I think a plug-in object that generates a handrail from a centerline could be a fast way to automate all of this, if you do a lot of this kind of work.

 

That being the case, you are talking about small distances for typical handrails.  You might check with your fabricator or whomever is responsible for quantities to see how accurate you really need to be, perhaps adding in a factor based on pipe diameter would be sufficient.  I sometimes design handrails for my landscape projects and it is always the fabricator's responsibility to determine what stock they need to order and such.  My quantification is just for Probable Costs, so the accuracy is not critical compared to the person ordering stock to fabricate the item.

[cberg]

Figured it out.  There is a way to extract a curve that provides the desired length/geometry.  Possibly easier than switching back and forth to the annotations space.  

 

The shop usually needs steel dimensioned to the 16th of an inch. 

 

We are exploring digital fabrication -- i.e., sending STP files directly to the cutter.  At the end of the day, you may be correct, and it is too much detail.  However, putting all the pieces (accurately) into a worksheet helps check the data.  

 

 

Edited May 30, 2025 by cberg

[Jeff Prince]

That sure seems a lot slower and prone to error when compared to using the formula...

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Good stuff.  Always best to find the solution on our own.  We can't tell what your follow on workflow requires.

 

 

[Steve S.]

Maybe this would be convenient at times

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2025 by Steve S.

[bcd]

2 hours ago, Steve S. said:

Maybe this would be convenient at times

Yes,

16 hours ago, Jeff Prince said:

That sure seems a lot slower and prone to error when compared to using the formula...

Agreed.

 

Realistically, VW should simply supply the length in the OIP, This is what I typically use which accounts for out of plane measuring errors:

 

 

[Steve S.]

@bcd

 

Your way is probably better because mine only works in PLAN VIEW.

 

Under the FILE menu, in UNITS within DOCUMENT SETTINGS, when I set the ROUNDING STYLE to DECIMAL, I then started getting workspace dimensions that matched the OIP readout to the thousandth of an inch. That is, to 1/1000th of an inch.

 

So best I can tell at this point, the OIP is working for me.

But I might have to do a little more experimenting.

 

[Steve S.]

Dimension = OIP readout