Individual Tools for *Move by Points*, *Copy* and *Array* - Feature Request

[Hugh Chapman]

I don't understand why the Move by Points tool currently combines these different functions. I do not find this logical or conducive to a fast and fluid workflow.

 

I see that the same request has been made numerous times -

 

 

 

 

Vectorworks Developers please create individual tools for Move by Points, Copy and Array!

 

-----------------

 

I am a Landscape Architect and experienced user of Rhino and Revit.

 

My posts in this forum reflect my desire for fast and accurate drawing.

 

So far my experience with learning Vectorworks is that it has some very good advanced features for Landscape Architecture, but that the basic drawing functionality is not good.

[Tom W.]

I have never used Rhino or Revit so am interested to know why splitting the Move by Points tool into three separate tools result in a faster + more fluid workflow. Why would switching between tools be preferable to switching between modes, especially with Smart Options Display + using the option key to copy in the first mode? Move by Points is an integral part of my workflow so I'd be apprehensive about seeing it changed/replaced... Perhaps the number of votes the 2014 Wishlist item you posted the link to received suggests others feel the same?

[Jeff Prince]

5 hours ago, Tom W. said:

I have never used Rhino or Revit so am interested to know why splitting the Move by Points tool into three separate tools result in a faster + more fluid workflow. Why would switching between tools be preferable to switching between modes, especially with Smart Options Display + using the option key to copy in the first mode? Move by Points is an integral part of my workflow so I'd be apprehensive about seeing it changed/replaced... Perhaps the number of votes the 2014 Wishlist item you posted the link to received suggests others feel the same?

 

It's a common problem with users of other softwares I provide training to...

They switch to Vectorworks and then immediately want to make Vectorworks behave like AutoCAD et al. instead of figuring out how to accomplish what they want with the provided tools.  The logic behind how AutoCAD works vs Vectorworks is particularly hard for most people.  It's funny because I recently had to spend some time in AutoCAD and it drove me crazy, even though I am an expert at using it.  Same thing with Blender.

 

Using software is like learning a regional dialect of a language, you look like an idiot until you start using it correctly.

 

So @Hugh Chapman, I suggest putting in the effort to learn the software instead of trying to change it.  I felt the same way when I started years ago, but it will pass as you become accustomed to things.

[Sebastiaan]

I mostly keep the move by points tool in the move and duplicate mode. If I want to use it for moving without duplicate I set the number of duplicates to 0 in stead of changing the mode. 
 

Knowing the UIOP[] shortcuts is especially useful for this. If you want to change the number of duplicates. Just press P. 

[rDesign]

On 5/9/2025 at 8:25 AM, Hugh Chapman said:

I see that the same request has been made numerous times -

If you read through those two threads you linked, you’ll see a bunch of suggestions on how to use the current Move by Points command efficiently. 

[Hugh Chapman]

Hi All,

 

Thank you for your replies.

 

Yes I am a new user of Vectorworks. I recognise that that there is a period of learning how things work in VW - much like learning a regional dialect of a language as you say @Jeff Prince . Absolutely, VW is not AutoCad/Rhino/Revit and there are many cases where I will need to learn how to do things ‘the VW way’.

 

However, as I learn how to do things the VW way there is a natural process of comparison with how other software I am familiar with. In some cases I am pleased to find that VW is different and better. In some cases I find that VW is different but no worse. But there are also cases where I am finding that VW is different and less good. In the spirit of constructive feedback and potential optimisation I am highlighting one such case here - the bundling together of Move by Points, Copy (by Points) and Array.

 

Permit me to explain why -

 

There are a couple of things I think should be considerations in designing software interfaces generally and which I will use to evaluate the relative merits of the current ‘bundled’ configuration of Move/Copy/Array in VW vs separate tools as I am requesting–

 

i) I think that reducing the click count and/or the number of steps required to complete commands should generally be a consideration in designing software interfaces. I suggest that this is especially important for the most frequently used tools and commands, as this is where the extra clicks add up.

 

ii) Enabling the user to flow from one command/process to the next without unhelpful snags and stumbling blocks is a related consideration.

 

For me both of these considerations are factors in how 'helpful' a software feels, and contribute to creating an enjoyable and efficient software environment to work in.

 

With these considerations in place, let us now turn to the current configuration of the Move by Points/Copy/Array tool in VW.

 

Say I’m working on a drawing where I will want to perform a number of move and copy operations amongst many other operations.

 

If I want to copy something I have to invoke the MbP command and set to ‘Move and Duplicate mode’. I have set up the shortcut ‘M’ for MbP and then I can use the U key to toggle to the ‘Move and Duplicate mode’. Perhaps the tool is already in ‘Move and Duplicate mode’ – but I need to check.

 

If I then want to MbP without copying I need to change the tool mode to ‘Move Mode’. Again I can use the U key to toggle to this mode. Perhaps the tool is already in ‘Move Mode’– but again I need to check, especially if I’ve been using other tools since I last used MbP.

 

Compare the number of clicks/keystrokes involved here with the situation where there are two separate tools for Move and Copy, with two different shortcut keys. M - Move, C - Copy. One keystroke to activate the tool, no uncertainty about what mode the tool is in. Happy days.

 

Another issue I find with the current configuration of the MbP tool in VW is that it is not possible to perform a ‘run’ of copy by point. Say for some reason I need to put a square on top of all these random height ‘sticks’.

 

 

With the current configuration of MbP I have to do this ‘one at a time’ copying from stick to stick. The way the Copy command is set up in AutoCad and Rhino I can make as many copies as I like and place them ‘by point’ simply by clicking where I want them.

 

So there you go.

 

For now the best option seems to be the hacky workaround of leaving the MbP tool in Move and Duplicate mode with Number of Duplicates set to 1 and then use the Alt key to ‘turn off’ Duplication when I want to simply Move by Points.

 

@TomW I understand that others are used to and have optimised their workflows around the current configuration of the MvP tool. Because of this I would recommend leaving the current configuration as is and adding separate Copy and Array commands alongside.

 

Kind regards,

 

Hugh Chapman

 

Edited Monday at 05:31 PM by Hugh Chapman

[Jeff Prince]

@Hugh Chapman There are already separate tools for each Move, Rotate, Copy, and Array.  Why aren't you using them instead of Move by Point?

 

To copy something multiple times, all you do is select the object, hold the option key, and click on the new location.  In AutoCAD, you would issue the copy command, select the object, establish a point to copy from, and then click on the location you want the copy to be at (that's one additional click).  With either program, you can do direct data entry midway through the command to place at a specific coordinate, relative coordinate, distance, and/or angel way from the original.

 

One of the big obstacles for my Vectorworks students coming from AutoCAD is the noun/verb vs verb/noun order of operations.  AutoCAD is mostly issue the command and then select the object, though you can change that.  Decade of AutoCAD instructional materials have reinforced this type of thinking.  In Vectorworks, the typical workflow is to select the object and then decide what to do with it.  This difference trips AutoCAD people up all the time.

 

Anyhow, use the discrete commands to move, copy, rotate, or array if you don't want to use the more specialized move by point tool.  Rather than bashing the software in your signature, maybe put your version and operating system in there so folks can help you more.

Edited Monday at 06:26 PM by Jeff Prince

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, Hugh Chapman said:

If I want to copy something I have to invoke the MbP command and set to ‘Move and Duplicate mode’. I have set up the shortcut ‘M’ for MbP and then I can use the U key to toggle to the ‘Move and Duplicate mode’. Perhaps the tool is already in ‘Move and Duplicate mode’ – but I need to check.

 

If I then want to MbP without copying I need to change the tool mode to ‘Move Mode’. Again I can use the U key to toggle to this mode. Perhaps the tool is already in ‘Move Mode’– but again I need to check, especially if I’ve been using other tools since I last used MbP.

 

Don't forget about Smart Options Display for checking/changing tool mode.

[Pat Stanford]

Or a very simple script that will set the tool and mode.

 

Procedure CustTool;

BEGIN 
	SetToolwithMode(-352,1,3);
END;
Run(CustTool);

 

The one above will set the Move By Points tool with the 3rd mode selected.

 

Change it from 1,3 to 1,1 and it will set the tool to the 1st mode selected.

 

There are instructions on making a script into a menu command and then adding them to your workspace in this thread:

 

 

[Elite Exhibits]

@Hugh Chapman - Did something like your suggestion - see attached

 

On 5/12/2025 at 1:25 PM, Hugh Chapman said:

perform a ‘run’ of copy by point. Say for some reason I need to put a square on top of all these random height ‘sticks’.

 

 

01 = Move by points holding the option key ... this creates the duplicates 

     Double click on each line to place.

 

02 = Create a symbol "square" with the insertion point at the bottom

Make it th active symbol and click away where needed

 

We use a lot of symbols (thousands !) so we often make symbols of things as a matter of course - They behave differently - though they are harder to screw up. Easier to count, and best of all VW will find them via a worksheet !

 

Peter

[setdesigner]

This is a nice idea, because I sometimes forget the move tool was in multiple copy mode, so having it always start in the first mode is good.

But I tried to make a tool script (because I want a one key shortcut) but when I activate it I need to make a first click before the tool is activated....

Any idea why ?

Thanks

On 5/12/2025 at 4:47 PM, Pat Stanford said:

Or a very simple script that will set the tool and mode.

 

Procedure CustTool;

BEGIN 
	SetToolwithMode(-352,1,3);
END;
Run(CustTool);

 

The one above will set the Move By Points tool with the 3rd mode selected.

 

Change it from 1,3 to 1,1 and it will set the tool to the 1st mode selected.

 

There are instructions on making a script into a menu command and then adding them to your workspace in this thread:

 

 

 

[Pat Stanford]

I am not seeing the click requirement.

When I make a PIO Menu Command from the script above add a shortcut to it and then execute the shortcut I immediately see the Move By Points tool become selected and the mode bar displays the expected mode.

 

Did you perhaps make a plug-in Tool instead of Menu Command? Tools require a click to activate.

[setdesigner]

Yes, I made a plug-in tool, because I want to assign a single key shortcut. Did not know a Tool required a click to activate...

Thanks

[Hugh Chapman]

On 5/12/2025 at 7:26 PM, Jeff Prince said:

@Hugh Chapman There are already separate tools for each Move, Rotate, Copy, and Array.  Why aren't you using them instead of Move by Point?

 

I never mentioned Rotate - I am happy with the way the Rotate tool functions. Leaving Array aside for now, I'm aware that there are a number of different ways to Move and Copy in VW.

 

What is (as far as I know) unique to the MbP tool is the ability to Copy by points.

 

And whilst it is possible to Move by Points using the selection tool, this requires the selection tool to be in "Disabled Interactive Scaling Mode" - another Tool mode to set or check is set as desired. So the MbP tool is my preferred choice for Move by Point operations also.

 

I find that the by points functionality is key to accurate drawing. The by points functionality also enables the use of a reference object to move/copy.

[Jeff Prince]

4 hours ago, Hugh Chapman said:

 

I never mentioned Rotate - I am happy with the way the Rotate tool functions. Leaving Array aside for now, I'm aware that there are a number of different ways to Move and Copy in VW.

 

What is (as far as I know) unique to the MbP tool is the ability to Copy by points.

 

And whilst it is possible to Move by Points using the selection tool, this requires the selection tool to be in "Disabled Interactive Scaling Mode" - another Tool mode to set or check is set as desired. So the MbP tool is my preferred choice for Move by Point operations also.

 

I find that the by points functionality is key to accurate drawing. The by points functionality also enables the use of a reference object to move/copy.

 

I doubt you will convince any of us of the merits of your suggested change and getting the company to change... good luck with that.  They destroyed the color selector a few versions ago and seem to have no interest in bringing it back in line with classic color theory/color wheel we were all trained on.  Anyhow, so much functionality can be extracted from these tools as is, or accelerated with the mode toggle keys, "option key" to copy, "shift key" to constrain objects on an axis or present angle, and Smart Display.  I think you will find success with experience and asking a few people to show you how to accomplish certain tasks.  You learn alot by watching others do, especially former AutoCAD users.

 

Tangent to this discussion... Have you adopted a BIM workflow and tried the irrigation tools?  Data Tags using "all eligible objects" mode?   Plant placement?

There are compelling interface reasons Vectorworks has used tool modes to quickly switch between ways of using tools, especially the more complex ones.  Keeping with this theme across even more basic tools gives the interface some consistency.

[Pat Stanford]

9 hours ago, Hugh Chapman said:

And whilst it is possible to Move by Points using the selection tool, this requires the selection tool to be in "Disabled Interactive Scaling Mode" - another Tool mode to set or check is set as desired. So the MbP tool is my preferred choice for Move by Point operations also.

Are you certain?  If you move the cursor close but not directly centered on a snap point you will get a cross cursor and you can move the object without resizing it. If you center the cursor more over the snap point you will get the double arrow diagonal cursor indicating that you will resize the object if you click and drag.

 

When using the cross/move cursor you can hit the Tab button to select a field to type the value you want to move by in (L, ∆X, ∆Y,  X, Y).

 

HTH

[Hugh Chapman]

Thanks @Pat Stanford

 

A little bit fiddly but works as you describe. What this approach lacks for me is the ability to snap to points on a reference object to determine the move coordinates. This has become quite an ingrained approach for me from working in Rhino. Perhaps I need to find a new way.

 

I'm experimenting with various approaches, including using Smart Options to set the MbP tool mode as you suggest @Tom W..

 

But all the available options I'm aware of feel inconvenient & inefficient compared with the simplicity of having distinct tools/command for Move by Points and Copy by Points.

 

@Pat Stanford thanks for your script instructions above. I tried to follow these last night but couldn't see the Miscellaneous category in the Workspace Editor Tools Menu.

 

I'll have another look later on. Might need to come back to you for further guidance.

[Pat Stanford]

If you specified a Category when you created the menu command it could be something other than Miscellaneous. That is just the default if you don't specify something else.

 

[grafinya]

Good morning, Pat, Where can I find the easiest way to restore Vectorworks command to use.

Thank you!

 

[Elite Exhibits]

8 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

When using the cross/move cursor you can hit the Tab button to select a field to type the value you want to move by in (L, ∆X, ∆Y,  X, Y).

 

@Pat Stanford

 

What is your magic mouse technique for this to work ... ?

       as in ... move an item (TAB into & set a field) without actually picking it up ?

 

 

We typically use the move or move by points vs TAB into the floating data bar

 

 

 

Peter

[Hugh Chapman]

1 hour ago, Pat Stanford said:

If you specified a Category when you created the menu command it could be something other than Miscellaneous. That is just the default if you don't specify something else.

 

Many thanks @Pat Stanford somehow I hadn't grasped that I needed to make the plug-in menu command before adding it to a workspace!

 

I've got this working now with

 

Ctrl-Shift M - Move by Points in Move Mode

Ctrl-Shift C - Move by Points in Move and Duplicate Mode i.e. Copy by Points

 

Ideally I would like to assign just "M" and "C" as single key shortcuts to invoke MbP in these tool modes but this doesn't appear to be possible in the Workspace Editor?

 

I also note that there doesn't appear to be a way to save custom commands within the Plug-in Manager or Workspace Editor. I wonder if VW would consider streamlining the process of transferring custom commands between versions.

 

I am curious to know how widely this custom command functionality is used and whether this might offer potential to address some of the other shortcomings I'm experiencing in VW - e.g.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Hugh Chapman

Edited Friday at 01:50 PM by Hugh Chapman

[Pat Stanford]

8 hours ago, grafinya said:

Good morning, Pat, Where can I find the easiest way to restore Vectorworks command to use.

Thank you!

I don't understand the question.

[Pat Stanford]

8 hours ago, Elite Exhibits said:

What is your magic mouse technique for this to work ... ?

       as in ... move an item (TAB into & set a field) without actually picking it up ?

I didn't realize it was a magic method until you asked.

 

The trick is to set the Selection Box (in VW Preferences:Interactive) to be a relatively large size. This "decreases" the accuracy you need to be able to click on a handle. If the Selection Box is big enough (try making it about 1/2 the slider), then you will be able to move close to the handle and the the cross/move cursor and then move closer (more accuracy) to get it to switch to the resize (double arrow) cursor.

 

And while you are checking of the Selection Box, try making the Snap Box bigger also. That will let you snap to snap points that are within the box without having to be right on top of them.

 

Green box is the Selection Box. Purple corners are the Snap Box.  I made them both bigger than I normally use and bolder colors for illustration purposes.

You can hear the clicks on my trackpad when I click and drag at the top right and bottom left corners.

[Pat Stanford]

7 hours ago, Hugh Chapman said:

Ideally I would like to assign just "M" and "C" as single key shortcuts to invoke MbP in these tool modes but this doesn't appear to be possible in the Workspace Editor?

It is not possible. Single Key shortcuts can only be applied to Tools. And as you already found out, scripts in tools to not run until you click into the drawing with the tool.

 

7 hours ago, Hugh Chapman said:

I also note that there doesn't appear to be a way to save custom commands within the Plug-in Manager or Workspace Editor. I wonder if VW would consider streamlining the process of transferring custom commands between versions.

 

The PIO you created should have been created in your User Folder. When you upgrade VW, you can use the Migration Manager to move your user folder to the new version. This will move a copy of the PIO and of your custom Workspace with the shortcuts to the new version. Since this is a very simple script it is unlikely to break, but some more complicated scripts may not run properly in a later version of VW from what they were written in.  Most will be fine.

 

Many power users do use custom scripts. They are especially common in the Entertainment industry where there is a small industry about 5-10 people who sell packages of custom scripts to enhance users experiences.  Yes, If you don't like the way VW works, you can change many things using scripts. But you have to be willing to learn scripting. There are some of us here who love to help new scripters. But we grow tired rapidly of people who just want things done for them without making the effort to learn how to do it themselves.