What happened to the hardscape tool with the latest update? The tool is broken.

[Jonk]

 With the latest update, the graphic controls in the hardscape tool have gone haywire. You set the background fill and the joint overlay pattern, but it doesn't accept the background fill. It was working perfectly until I just updated, and now all of my files are retroactively looking wrong. Why was it working perfectly, and now it's completely broken? @Katarina Ollikainen

 

 

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Jonk - I haven't noticed this. Do you have an example? And is this on hardscape created in 2025 or earlier, or both?

[Jonk]

@Katarina Ollikainen I've attached a file with some hardscapes that I've dragged from our workgroup manager. They all have a 2D fill but it's not showing up. When I edit the style and try and apply one again, still nothing. 

 

I'm also finding that the issue with the landscape areas is back. Trying to reshape one with the handles and it disappears. Converting a shape to a landscape area and the wrong attributes come in and then when I try to change it it either disappears or just goes white. 

 

Thanks for looking! 

 

 

Hardscape Graphics Test.vwx

[Jonk]

44 minutes ago, Katarina Ollikainen said:

@Jonk - I haven't noticed this. Do you have an example? And is this on hardscape created in 2025 or earlier, or both?

Sorry forgot to mention that it is in hardscapes created in 2025. I have created a bunch of hardscapes that are in our workgroup library and they were all working perfectly. 

[Tom W.]

54 minutes ago, Katarina Ollikainen said:

I haven't noticed this

 

Sounds like what I describe in VB-210409.

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Jonk, Ok, I've looked at the file you sent over - it seems like there is a bug. If I unstyle the hardscape and then create a style of it again, then it works perfectly, so there is something that was introduced between 2024 and now.

 

I'm meeting with the engineers tomorrow morning and will bring this up to see what we can do and will update you after that.

 

[Tom W.]

@Katarina Ollikainen if I'm looking at a Hardscape in Top/Plan + I have the Joint Pattern Overlay 2D part in a class + I make that class invisible, should I then expect to see the attributes of the class the Base Fill 2D part is assigned to? I thought this was how it worked at the beginning. If I got that wrong, under what circumstances should I expect to see the Base Fill attributes? At the moment I'm struggling to see the purpose of the Base Fill 2D part. Thanks.

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Tom W., I believe that the double layer system came from the request (many years ago) to have a gradient in the background and a JPO over that. They should be completely separate settings that have nothing to do with each other regarding attributes. In the image, the basefill is green, the JPO is flagstone and it has its attributes from the AA class (no fill, orange pen).

Now, if you use a tile or hatch with background, then you don't need the base fill, as it will cover it. OR, you can just add the tile to the base fill and not use the JPO.

That the whole hardscape disappear if you turn off the class you have for the JPO seems buggy - if you do the same with a plant cloud or plant line on a Landscape area, only that part of the object is made invisible. I'll bring this up tomorrow as well.

 

We're creating the features not to rely on class attributes - you should be able to use the objects and set the attributes directly in the style settings instead of having to use classes. Otherwise, you'll need different classes for every combination of attributes. This doesn't mean that you can't use them, only that you shouldn't have to if you want the style to steer the attributes.

 

Let me know if I'm not covering your question.

[Jonk]

32 minutes ago, Katarina Ollikainen said:

@Tom W., I believe that the double layer system came from the request (many years ago) to have a gradient in the background and a JPO over that. They should be completely separate settings that have nothing to do with each other regarding attributes. In the image, the basefill is green, the JPO is flagstone and it has its attributes from the AA class (no fill, orange pen).

Now, if you use a tile or hatch with background, then you don't need the base fill, as it will cover it. OR, you can just add the tile to the base fill and not use the JPO.

That the whole hardscape disappear if you turn off the class you have for the JPO seems buggy - if you do the same with a plant cloud or plant line on a Landscape area, only that part of the object is made invisible. I'll bring this up tomorrow as well.

 

We're creating the features not to rely on class attributes - you should be able to use the objects and set the attributes directly in the style settings instead of having to use classes. Otherwise, you'll need different classes for every combination of attributes. This doesn't mean that you can't use them, only that you shouldn't have to if you want the style to steer the attributes.

 

Let me know if I'm not covering your question.

What you are describing here is exactly how I've been using it. I don't class anything but I have a tile with no background that is my JPO and then a base fill underneath that. This was ideal and working perfectly. It gives flexibility because I can also set the attributes to by instance and maybe there is something unique about one of the hardscapes that means I want it to have a slightly background fill (think dry set vs. wet set) I really liked the functionality and it was working great. The key was using a tile with no background as the JPO and a fill as the base. 

 

Thanks for looking into it!

[Tom W.]

10 minutes ago, Katarina Ollikainen said:

@Tom W., I believe that the double layer system came from the request (many years ago) to have a gradient in the background and a JPO over that. They should be completely separate settings that have nothing to do with each other regarding attributes. In the image, the basefill is green, the JPO is flagstone and it has its attributes from the AA class (no fill, orange pen).

Now, if you use a tile or hatch with background, then you don't need the base fill, as it will cover it. OR, you can just add the tile to the base fill and not use the JPO.

That the whole hardscape disappear if you turn off the class you have for the JPO seems buggy - if you do the same with a plant cloud or plant line on a Landscape area, only that part of the object is made invisible. I'll bring this up tomorrow as well.

 

We're creating the features not to rely on class attributes - you should be able to use the objects and set the attributes directly in the style settings instead of having to use classes. Otherwise, you'll need different classes for every combination of attributes. This doesn't mean that you can't use them, only that you shouldn't have to if you want the style to steer the attributes.

 

Let me know if I'm not covering your question.

 

Thanks @Katarina Ollikainen have a look at this example:

 

I am using a Hatch with a background for the JPO. I should be able to assign different attributes to the Base Fill + when I turn off the JPO class see these attributes instead. But when I edit the Base Fill attributes everything is greyed-out so I can't set the attributes directly in the style. It says it is taking its attributes from the class:

 

So there's something wrong here right?

 

So all I can do is edit the 'Hardscape-2D-Base Fill' class. In this case I give it a red fill + for this particular Hardscape when I turn off the JPO class I see the red fill so that at least is working as expected:

 

but I do the same thing in a different Hardscape + I get different results. In this image the LH Hardscape is a different style but it has exactly the same attributes settings as the RH one yet when I turn off the JPO class I am not seeing the red fill:

 

 

It just all feels very buggy. I am assigning classes to the parts + the assignments are not sticking: they are changing by themself + I have to run around resetting them. The results are inconsistent from object to object: sometimes it works as expected, most times not.

 

I filed two bugs about this two weeks ago - VB-210408 + VB-210409 - but not heard anything back yet. There was also VB-207607 which dealt with a similar thing.

[Jonk]

@Tom W. Agreed, all feels very buggy. A coworker has a file where some of the hardscapes show as they should and some just show the JPO but no fill behind. All of the settings are the same and I tried all of the usual fixes but it really is just a bug. Very little consistency in how it works. Things were good for a while but it seems we are back to the bugginess. Still dealing with it on Landscape Areas as well. 

[Tom W.]

@Katarina Ollikainen I am working with a new Hardscape style this morning. I set the Class in the 'General' tab + this class is then being automatically applied to the Base Fill + JPO parts in the 'Attributes' pane as well. I change the Base Fill + JPO classes back to what they are meant to be + this causes the Hatch I've chosen for the Pattern to change to something else so I have to go in + change that back as well... Surely all this isn't WAD?

[Jonk]

@Katarina Ollikainen I can confirm that converting the hardscape to unstyled, going into hardscape settings and adding the fill back in, creating a new style from the changes does work. 

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Jonk, we had a long meeting about the hardscape this morning and we've found an easier way to fix these hardscape (a temporary fix, so you can keep working with them. Of course, this will be addressed within Landmark as well). I'll create a quick recording for you within the next hour. If you apply it, please let me know if it fixes your issue.

 

@Tom W., I'll address your questions above as well at the same time.

[Jonk]

32 minutes ago, Katarina Ollikainen said:

@Jonk, we had a long meeting about the hardscape this morning and we've found an easier way to fix these hardscape (a temporary fix, so you can keep working with them. Of course, this will be addressed within Landmark as well). I'll create a quick recording for you within the next hour. If you apply it, please let me know if it fixes your issue.

 

@Tom W., I'll address your questions above as well at the same time.

Thank you!!

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Jonk, here is a recording on how to fix your hardscape objects.

 

 

@Tom W., 

[Jonk]

13 minutes ago, Katarina Ollikainen said:

@Jonk, here is a recording on how to fix your hardscape objects.

 

@Tom W., 

@Katarina Ollikainen This works! When I create a new hardscape and use an existing style it all works fine. The more common workflow for us is to create object from shapes and that is also working. Going into hardscape settings like you demonstrated and then editing the style also works for correcting existing hardscapes. 

 

Thanks for your help! It does make sense that files wouldn't get converted from update to update. 

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Tom W., here is the first of the issues you highlighted. It seems to be connected to the same issue as @Jonk had, with the resetting working different via the object settings and the style settings, and there seem to be a 'one-click-delay' before the settings kick in. 

I'll come back to the other issues you raised as soon as I have more info on them.

 

[Tom W.]

14 minutes ago, Katarina Ollikainen said:

@Tom W., here is the first of the issues you highlighted. It seems to be connected to the same issue as @Jonk had, with the resetting working different via the object settings and the style settings, and there seem to be a 'one-click-delay' before the settings kick in. 

I'll come back to the other issues you raised as soon as I have more info on them.

 

 

Many thanks Katarina but I am still unable to get my Hardscapes to work. I am not allowed to set the Base Fill attributes by style as the settings are greyed-out. So my only option is to set them by class. And I initially thought that your suggestion of entering then exiting the object settings was making it work as it should but what in fact is happening is that on exiting the Hardscape settings VW is changing the class that the Hardscape is in to the Base Fill class, so that when I turn off the JPO class I am fooled onto thinking I'm seeing the Base Fill attributes (i.e. the attributes of the Base Fill part) but what in fact I'm seeing is the attributes of the Base Fill class as assigned to the object itself. If that makes sense...

 

Please have a play around with the attached Hardscapes + tell me what you think.

 

If I understand correctly, I should be able to give each Hardscape style one appearance in the JPO part, another in the Base Fill part, and when both of these parts are invisible (their classes turned off) I should see the attributes of the insertion class. I just want to use the Base Fill + JPO classes to control visibility + set the attributes in the style. In a viewport I should be able to see 1) the individual JPO attributes for each Hardscape, 2) the individual Base Fill attributes, or 3) the attributes for the insertion classes. At the moment VW is only letting me do 1) + 3).

 

Thanks for taking the time to look at this.

 

Hardscape file for Katarina_25-03-26.vwx

[Anders Blomberg]

Just pitching in here as I'm seeing some strange behavior as well. After going into the hardscape style and clicking OK all hardscapes with that style changes to a Class Vectorworks has created by itself, called "New class...". 

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Anders Blomberg, do you have a file you can share with me so I can see what's happening?

[Tom W.]

Did you get a chance to look at my file @Katarina Ollikainen...?

[Anders Blomberg]

@Katarina Ollikainen Have a look at VB-210739 where the file is uploaded in a related issue.

[HebHeb]

Same Issues.

I guess the bug is somehow that (at least for me in the German Update 4 Version), the Base Fill Class and the Class under General where the Object is placed should be different classes but are interpreted as the same. When I change an Attribute Class (Base), it changes the class in General and vice versa.
 

Our Hardscape styles use 3 different classes (object, base, hatch) (which was a really game-changing nice new feature, and I changed the whole library based on that). It's a shame that this is broken now. I hope it wasn't a misunderstanding by myself and this will still be like this, even with the possibility to change color via the attribute palette (which for me isn't that important...)

Edited March 27 by HebHeb

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Tom W., yes, I've looked at it and I'll post a recording on the hardscape and what to expect later today - we're finalising what we think will the best solution on the collision between the JPO and the base area. Thank you for testing this.