Renderworks that works like Artlantis

[Christiaan]

I couldn't imagine using Renderworks to achieve what I've done recently on some projects. Although the export to Artlantis process can take minutes with a large file and although Artlantis is a little buggy, the way Artlantis works means that it is still astronomically faster and easier to use than Renderworks.

[Dave Donley]

Hello Christiaan:

Can you list some specific areas that should work better in RenderWorks?

Feel free to email me with suggestions.

[Christiaan]

Hi Dave, my first suggestion would be that you get a copy of Artlantis and see what it's capable of.

The biggest advantage Artlantis gives us over Renderworks is speed. We can navigate and work with a 10 storey building, with some reasonably intricate modelling, in real time good quality OpenGL.

With Renderworks at lowest quality OpenGL settings it takes a few seconds simply to render one view, let alone trying to move about the model.

The other advantage (which I admittedly haven't had a chance to properly test against Renderworks radiosity) is the high quality final renders. I have little doubt however, from the experience I do have, that Artlantis can produce both better and faster high quality renders.

The only downside is the long time it takes to export a large model and the fact that Artlantis is bug ridden software.

I think things would be quite interesting if Nemetschek bought Artlantis, or just bought Abvent, tidied up their software and integrated it into Vectorworks.

[russellhall]

LWA and RPC support would be nice. As an Accurender/ADT refugee I now have numerous RPCs which I can no longer use. Also I agree that it could be quicker.

[Christiaan]

What're LWA, RPC , ADT and Accurender?

[G_Hannigan]

LWA = "LWA stands for LightWorks Archive - it is a platform-independent and application-independent digital file format specifically designed for the distribution of elements used to accurately represent real world materials within LightWorks-based CAD applications. This ?Content?, can take the form of materials such as Mannington carpets, Benjamin Moore paints and UNS Metals, but also include lighting, backgrounds and scenery. The beauty of the LWA file format is its ability to wrap up any number of these elements into a single archive file that can then be used in any LightWorks-based application."

http://www.lightworks-user.com/aboutlwa.htm

ADT = Autodesk Architectural Desktop (~VW Arch)

Accurender = "AccuRender is high-end rendering, fully integrated into AutoCAD, Architectural Desktop, or Mechanical Desktop. "

http://www.accurender.com/

RPC = Remote Procedure Call?

George

[mike m oz]

RPC stands for Rich Photorealistic Content. Go to the ArchVision site for more information

http://www.archvision.com/WhatisRPC.cfm

http://www.archvision.com/ContentCategories.cfm?Category=1

Edited May 5, 2006 by mike m oz

[G_Hannigan]

Thanks Mike

[islandmon]

My 2cents:

Keep RW/Radiosity simple & efficient for the vast majority of users who do not require RPC renderings, but continue to improve export to high-end dedicated rendering engines as noted.

Furthermore, implementation of multiprocessor distributed rendering is mandatory for efficient RW/Radiosity.

[Christiaan]

Keep RW/Radiosity simple & efficient for the vast majority of users who do not require RPC renderings

Well that was part of the point of my original post. I don't know if you've ever tried Artlantis but it's vastly simpler and more efficient than Renderworks.

Furthermore, implementation of multiprocessor distributed rendering is mandatory for efficient RW/Radiosity.

Couldn't agree more.

[thecadman]

I am a longtime user of both Vectorworks and Artlantis. (I am also a FormZ expert and so understand the Lightworks renderer also)

I would really like to move over to Renderworks and recommend it to others but feel I can't yet do that.

Before the criticisms I would like to say that the Renderworks is getting there and if they take on the suggestions and criticisms it could become the default renderer for VW users. Radiosity is one of the better implementations of the technology out there - although the one in Artlantis is still a whole lot quicker and easier to use (although not as accurate)

I will try to distil where it is so much better...

1. Realtime feedback - Artlantisre-renders the scene in a preview mode very similar to the finished article -this allows tweaking of the lights or textures to refine the image easily.

2. Lighting

Spots have soft shadow capability which is fully editable

(Renderworks can achieve soft shadows of low quality and no editability of softness... and there is a bug that prevents soft shadows when transparency is on)

Lights have their own list and dialog and spots can be moved by their target point (as can VW) but also by their emitter whilst the target stays where it is (unlike VW)

Falloff of lights has a good dialog and feedback so that you can see exactly how far a light will shine..

Can anyone tell me how the falloff of light is controlled in Renderworks ?

3. Textures

In Artlantis objects can have more than one texture on them such as posters on wall or several layers of textures such as wall with two different bump maps for grout and brick roughness.

Apart from Artlantis's strengths v's Renderworks there are other things needed:

1. Preview of texture changes

When editing a texture eg it's reflectivity there is a need for a preview to show the effect of what has been done without going back out of the dialog.

Previewing the effect of any change is critical to efficient workflow in all aspects of the program and as "realtime" as possible...

[Dave Donley]

Hello Diddyman:

Thanks for your comments.

>

1. Realtime feedback - Artlantisre-renders the scene in a preview mode very similar to the finished article -this allows tweaking of the lights or textures to refine the image easily.

<

In version 11, texture editing was improved through the Attribute Mapping Tool, which lets you change the offset, scale, and rotation of a selected object's mapping using the mouse and rendered interactively in OpenGL mode. Have you tried this? Also, the little arrow button next to the Object Info palette's Texture menu lets you edit the texture resource on a selected object, in a preview marquee rendered in either Fast or FQRW modes.

Light aiming is rendered interactively in OpenGL mode, although the interactivity of other operations (spread angle, etc.) should be extended.

>

2. Lighting

Spots have soft shadow capability which is fully editable

(Renderworks can achieve soft shadows of low quality and no editability of softness... and there is a bug that prevents soft shadows when transparency is on)

<

The shadow mapping bugs (shadow map detail not working and transparency having to be turned off) will be fixed in the next major release.

>

Falloff of lights has a good dialog and feedback so that you can see exactly how far a light will shine..

Can anyone tell me how the falloff of light is controlled in Renderworks ?

<

In the real world all lights have an exponential falloff. This is the "Sharp" distance falloff in RW. All other falloff profiles are not seen in the real world, although I understand how this could be useful to get a particular look. It is tricky to define an arbitrary distance falloff using LightWorks, which is why it hasn't been done yet. My opinion especially since radiosity is added (which uses sharp falloff for all indirect lighting) is that lights should always use Sharp falloff and emitter values to define brightness (Artlantis doesn't use physical definition of light brightness).

>

1. Preview of texture changes

When editing a texture eg it's reflectivity there is a need for a preview to show the effect of what has been done without going back out of the dialog.

<

The edit texture feature mentioned above has a checkbox that lets you see all objects in the preview marquee, so you can see the results of reflectivity tweaks.

Thanks again for the info,

[Christiaan]

Diddyman:

1. Realtime feedback - Artlantisre-renders the scene in a preview mode very similar to the finished article -this allows tweaking of the lights or textures to refine the image easily.

Dave:

In version 11, texture editing was improved through the Attribute Mapping Tool, which lets you change the offset, scale, and rotation of a selected object's mapping using the mouse and rendered interactively in OpenGL mode. Have you tried this?

You really have to try Artlantis to see what is meant by "real time" feedback Dave. Have you tried it?

[G_Hannigan]

Dave,

A couple of reasons why I use other renderers:

1. The ability to apply & mix multiple textures on an object.

2. The abilty to easily define the planes on an object that the texture is assigned to without having to break an object down into separate parts. In Artlantis this is done by assigning to a plane rather than an object. In C4D, non-contiguous polygons of an object can be grouped and have a texture applied.

3. Simplify the mapping procedure - I've tried the Attribute Mapping Tool but I'm not comfortable with it yet. I feel that I'm spending too much time trying to get the texture where I want.

George