Sources for image props...AI?

[Landartma]

I'm working on my plant library and need more images.  I've used up what I have for pics and ran them through GIMP.  I'm convinced there is a way easier cost effective way.  Is anyone using AI to generate or using AI generated images to import into VW for image props?  I found some stuff on Shutterstock, CG Trader, and Adobe Stock.  Some of the stuff appears to be photos and some AI generated.  It seems like a good service could save a ton of time.  Interested to know what others are doing.

[Dave Donley]

Hello @Landartma just a note that the AI Visualizer in Vectorworks 2025 Update 2 has alpha channel support and this is specifically to make it easier to generate image props with alpha channel.  It can sometimes be a fight to get the image generation to give you specific views of plants, this is an area we are interested in improving because it makes so much sense for our users.

 

https://youtu.be/XLs9QhMVBkU

 

[Tom W.]

There was also a recent Coffee Break on the AI Visualiser which touched on Image Prop creation (see 27:25):

 

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/overview/view.php?id=7836

 

[Landartma]

Attached is a plant pic I removed the back ground on via GIMP then turned into an image prop.  It worked great but its super time consuming.  Can the Visualizer actually create this kind of imagery.  I messed with it a bit and got poor results from both text prompt and Vectorworks image.  I see on the coffee breaks some textures being created.  I see some plant groups being created but I tried creating a simple hydrangea just as a trial but failed to create anything useful.  My prompt is likely inadequate.  I successfully created a couple boulders that were ok.  In the end I don't really care where the images come from but I want to be sure I'm securing them in the right ways for commercial use and generating them in the most cost effective way possible.       

[Landartma]

Also I heard about a discussion group on the coffee break.   Is it here on the forum or somewhere else?

[Tom W.]

I have been using the AI Visualiser a bit this last week + find it involves an enormous degree of trial + error + a hell of a lot of work to get something usable. The way it responds to prompts/images feels incredibly random. It is very hard to exert any meaningful control over it. A set of prompts that produced good results in one case produces useless results the next time you use them.

[Landartma]

Yea I've been messing with it a bit today but have to make keep pumping out the plans for clients.  So I'm looking for the low hanging fruit.  Proven Winners gave me access to their images...with terms of course.  I'm super bullish on the AI but don't think its there yet as a tool for everyday use.  I'm sure it will change by next week.  I talked to a couple of my visual arts buddies today they are pointing me toward Adobe.  I'll let you know what I find.

[Dave Donley]

1 hour ago, Landartma said:

Also I heard about a discussion group on the coffee break.   Is it here on the forum or somewhere else?

 

Indeed here it is:
https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/forum/253-ai-visualizer/

[Flair-Studio]

I tried to mess a bit with the seamless textures, something simple like brushed stainless steel high res, but too poor to be usable, there was also a thin white border which I thought I could delete with a crop, but then the texture wasn't seamless

[Landartma]

Yea I would say that the AI visualizer is in BETA mode not there yet but we all will need to get on board with the AI its coming.

 

I did take a bunch of the stuff off VW libraries and customized it into my favorites.  I also looked at Globe Plants...A bit pricey and not complete for what I need.

[BartH]

Can we clarify the legality of AI tools here.

My understanding is that you still can not copyright AI generated works.
 

So, if you use the AI Generator to create image props, those assets can be used by anyone without copyright protections. 

It also seems risky that if we are using Ai generated content in a rendering, the rendering itself could be considered a work using AI.

 

Do we run the risk of forfeiting copyright by using AI in our professional work. 

 

Asking for a friend!

 

Bart

[Landartma]

I'm not to concerned about copywrite on AI if I create it but photos from the internet could cause problems if used without proper credentials so I steer clear from using those.  I'd rather use permissioned sources.   I found some good stuff from Proven Winners.  They have not only images of nursery stock but also cad details formated as sketchup files.  I brought one into a file and its not rendering so I attached it.  Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong.  Also see the screen shot from Proven Winners.  It seems to be a good resource.  I also got a few things from Adobe Stock but you have to wade through a ton of images to get suitable images.

Diervilla.vwx 5631-015.skp

[Landartma]

@BartH I'm not sure how it would affect our copywrite protection if we use AI generated images in as part of the work we produce but it will definitely make for some juicy legal battles....Get out your popcorn.  

[BartH]

It appears the US Copyright Office issued some clarification today [Copyright Report Part 2 - PDF] 52 page report

In summary, the US Copyright Office says:

• Copyright issues can be resolved with current laws.
• Copyright protection does not extend to wholly AI generated works.
• Prompts alone do not provide sufficient control to allow a copyright.
• Copyright protects the original expression in a work created by a human author, even if the work also includes AI-generated material.

So, by my reading. AI generated image prop in you final renderings do not affect the ability to copyright the overall image.

However, if you are using VW AI to create concept sketches, "renderings," or other works, those images are free use for all to copy and claim. 

[Pat Stanford]

That is my basic understanding also Bart.

 

But in addition, the use of AI to produce non-copyrightable images that are then used as part of a larger work (think image props or seamless hatches/tiles) does not effect the copyright of the larger work as long as it meets the other requirements for copyright.

 

If you model a house or a garden and choose the location of the doors/windows/plants etc. That should be sufficient original expression to allow the image to be copyrightable.

 

And even if one rendered view done via AI was considered non-copyrightable, that would not effect the copyright to the overall model or other rendered views done via other methods.

 

Clear as mud, right?

[Landartma]

Any idea why certain plant styles show up in the plant style drop down but when I go to edit a plant style I get access to the Proven Winners stock.   I also see the same thing on the plant catalogue.  Sometimes Monrovia show up Proven Winners.  Whats the setting to make all plant resources show up every time?

 

[BartH]

34 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

And even if one rendered view done via AI was considered non-copyrightable, that would not effect the copyright to the overall model or other rendered views done via other methods.

Yes, @Pat Stanford I think you are exactly right.

 

What I get concerned about is when someone does a simple sketch in VW and uses that as the basis (essentially a visual prompt) to generate a number of AI concepts.

All of those images are not copyrightable, even though you later went on to develop a model. 

 

Even in the case you cite. Yes, your model is protected by copyright, but the AI generated image could be used on anybody's website as promotion of the kind of work they could do. You would have no recourse, even though you actually build the dang house. The AI image is still free use.

 

[Perhaps this side conversation should be moves to the AI forum? ]

 

 

[Pat Stanford]

@BartH I can see that, but bad guys are going to be bad guys. Does it really make any difference?

 

You post an AI generated sketch. It has no copyright. Someone takes it and uses it on their web site. You have not recourse.

 

You build a house. Someone goes out and takes a photograph and uses it on their web site. They own the copyright to the photo. You may own the copyright to the house, but they own the copyright to the photo (see the French government trying to ban the taking of night time photos of the Eiffel Tower because they own the copyright to the light display). You may have some legal recourse, but it would very rarely be worth the cost of even a lawyer letter to try and get them to take it down and almost certainly not worth actually going to court over.

 

You build a house and take a photo and post it on your web site. You own the copyright to both the house and the photo. Someone "borrows" the image for their web site.  Same as the case above. Rarely worth the cost of court. Even if you are in right.

 

🤷‍♂️

[BartH]

All good points @Pat Stanford

 

I guess all this is to say that I, personally, am very uncomfortable with AI as replacement for creating conceptual art and "renderings" in professional work.

I guess it is best summed up by this viral comment by author Joanna Maciejewska: What is the VectorWorks equivalent of doing the dishes? 

p.s. I have no idea who owns the copyright on this image!) 

 

[Landartma]

unfortunately @BartH the Cat is out of the bag so make it a tool.

[Jeff Prince]

56 minutes ago, Landartma said:

unfortunately @BartH the Cat is out of the bag so make it a tool.

Maybe if you produce commodity grade /off-the-shelf type design work.  AI “art” the digital equivalent of those hotel painting made in 3rd world conditions by people who simply copy an original.  Professionals should hold themselves to a higher standard and protect creative design work from artificial plagiarism.

[Landartma]

@Jeff Prince Agreed it will likely be like buying local food.  Man made art will be a way bigger deal...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Copyright is an odd thing in itself.  Who owns what, etc.   On the Federal Government Website (Canada) I found a section that said (AI still experimental)!  What does that mean?

I have found my material used elsewhere over the last 40 years, but some was while I was a Federal Employee.  So, is it copyright or as a Canadian is it free to use.....again unclear.

But, if people are using/pirating your stuff, is that a bad thing?  It validates your work is good and you are on the right path.  If no one uses your stuff, then time to think.

[bcd]

19 hours ago, BartH said:

What I get concerned about is when someone does a simple sketch in VW and uses that as the basis (essentially a visual prompt) to generate a number of AI concepts.

Developing this very interesting point, I assume the AI engine ingests and stores all the VW designs we feed it and can repurpose those at will forever.

[bcd]

^ If true, doesn't this automatically exclude any designers working under NDA from using AI?