drock019 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Hi Everyone, I want to draw a 3'-0" wide stair with the stair tool and then I would like to change only the bottom two treads to be 3'-6" wide. Is this possible with the stair tool? Thank you, Derek Quote Link to comment
P Retondo Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 You might be able to define those two treads as "landings" to work around the limitations of the tool. It has been a long-standing suggestion of mine that a stairs tool deriving its geometry from 2d polygons instead of simplified parameters would be useful to architects and designers. Unfortunately, no one has given that idea attention. Designers should be free to design and the software should give them freedom instead of pushing them into simplified boxes as imagined by software engineers. 3 Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 14 hours ago, P Retondo said: Designers should be free to design and the software should give them freedom instead of pushing them into simplified boxes as imagined by software engineers. Model it if you want it exactly how you want it. 1 Quote Link to comment
drock019 Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 I agree with you Pete the stair tool needs an update or a complete overhaul. Having to model things from scratch is so early 2000's. Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 @drock019 it depends on what your expectations are. Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 It's very common for flights of stairs to have a couple of non standard treads at the bottom. It's not entirely unreasonable to expect a stair tool to be able to cope with these kinds of conditions. This is far from the only limitation of the current tool, of course. Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 There are loads of things that are common in stairs that the stair tool does not address, e.g. handrail on landing being a different height to the flight. Most of the things it does not do is why we don't use it. Modelling exactly what you want (often via Rhino) apart from being quite cathartic, is necessary. Back to future! 1 Quote Link to comment
VIRTUALENVIRONS Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) @drock019 Some things simply have to be modelled. There are two disciplines in VW's for 3D modelling, Hybrid tools (Stair tool) and the 3D tools. To produce what you would find in a normal home today, the hybrid tools are fantastic, but if you want to produce a Grand Staircase, then you have to model it. Having said that, it is very easy to make a staircase with different treads widths, either top, bottom or even mid level. But it does require a foray down the NURBS rabbit hole. See Below Edited January 23 by VIRTUALENVIRONS 1 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 27 minutes ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said: To produce what you would find in a normal home today, the hybrid tools are fantastic, They really aren't. Quote Link to comment
VIRTUALENVIRONS Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 minutes ago, line-weight said: They really aren't. Well, they allow architects who do not understand 3D modelling to create a 3D home. I think that concept is lost on a lot of people who have traditional 3D skills. Quote Link to comment
Flair-Studio Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 A simple workaround is to move the stair in Z direction 2 steps above, remove said steps from the stair, and model the two steps. That's quite easy but to do things properly, then the handrails should be entirely modelled as nurbs 1 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Flair-Studio said: A simple workaround is to move the stair in Z direction 2 steps above, remove said steps from the stair, and model the two steps. That's quite easy but to do things properly, then the handrails should be entirely modelled as nurbs Of course, this messes up the ability to easily change floor-to-floor heights without a lot of manual editing of stair objects, so you lose a fair bit of the advantage of a properly parametric stair. 1 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 4 hours ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said: Well, they allow architects who do not understand 3D modelling to create a 3D home. The problem is that they only allow architects to model the most basic of stairs. They can't cope with a variety of features that are quite common even in fairly standard residential buildings. Any architect who has tried to use them for anything but the lowest levels of detail will not tell you that they are "fantastic". 1 Quote Link to comment
E|FA Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 The tools definitely need improvement and like many things in VW you need to figure out the workarounds. Regardless of how the tool is improved there will be cases that don't apply and workarounds will be needed. The workaround for everything except very basic stairs for me right now is to use the Stair (or Custom Stair) tool for a rough version until I know the overall dimensions will probably not change. I then ungroup a copy of the PIO (hiding a copy of the original just in case I need it later) and 3D model the aspects the Stair tool can't handle. 2 Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, line-weight said: this messes up the ability to easily change floor-to-floor heights without a lot of manual editing of stair objects, so you lose a fair bit of the advantage of a properly parametric stair. You are basically totally right. I just don't think that is such an issue ...... as I need to re-check a level bound Stair after Story height change anyway. As the Stair may change number of risers, although not necessary, arbitrarily relocate its exit point, ...... Such a change never ended to my liking automatically. And because changing Story heights is a quite seldom needed feature. 2 Quote Link to comment
P Retondo Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Imagine this. Draw a stairs in 2d with treads, winders, landings the way you want. Then the stairs tool converts those polygons to a set of extruded treads with proper nosings, risers, all equally spaced on the z axis, and some form of undercarriage. Railing options extruded along a path derived from the tread corners, using a railing shape defined by you. Basically, done the way we would do it manually following a simple set of rules, saving a ton of time and repetitious work. Isn’t that what software is supposed to do for us? Quote Link to comment
VIRTUALENVIRONS Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I doubt it will be very soon, if ever that any program can model "any staircase" by just inputing treads heights, widths, etc. Shorter mentioned Rhino. You have to model it "old school" in Rhino, why not model it "old school" in Vectorworks. Vectorworks would have the advantage of editing to some extent. You can edit NURBS to a point if you set it up correctly. Quote Link to comment
Matt Overton Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 19 hours ago, line-weight said: It's very common for flights of stairs to have a couple of non standard treads at the bottom. It's not entirely unreasonable to expect a stair tool to be able to cope with these kinds of conditions. This is far from the only limitation of the current tool, of course. Odd it’s completely against code around here to change configuration in a flight.. it creates a massive trip hazard by breaking the walker’s rhythm Quote Link to comment
E|FA Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I assumed the intended stairs were non-standard in terms of width, not tread depth or riser height. Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 hours ago, E|FA said: I assumed the intended stairs were non-standard in terms of width, not tread depth or riser height. Yes. This kind of thing is very common in the UK at least. 1 Quote Link to comment
Flair-Studio Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 25 minutes ago, line-weight said: This kind of thing is very common in the UK at least. I wish it was possible to get one of those from the OIP...! Quote Link to comment
Kenny Green Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I have a workaround to make stairs like these. (Referring to the center stairs) If you're interested let me know and Ill make a video. 1 Quote Link to comment
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