Scott Schwartz, AIA Posted November 27, 2024 Share Posted November 27, 2024 We have a site where there is one little 2-story duplex building (one model) that is repeated 2 times on the site. Building 1 and Building 2 shown below. It is identical but rotates in orientation 180 degrees. Simple enough to repeat in plan views for the architecture 2D sheets with viewport control. I am trying to do this all with ONE building model. The area I need help on is the elevation difference between the two buildings is going to be about 18 inches as the site slopes. This elevation information will show up automatically as the single model data when I use Elevation Benchmarks using my story names in 2D Elevations and Sections. In my stories, the model is set at the grade of the pad elevation (actual) for the ONE building (66'). Now when I set them in the site, the elevations numbers are off unless I manually override, not to mention making my terrain model correct. Same issue in the exterior elevations that I duplicate with relabeling the orientation but now Benchmarks are incorrect. (For our energy calculations here in California, I need the actual building orientation shown for all glazing.) Also, I need a way to render this. I can do overlapping viewports of perspective views but I can't do an Enscape render of all. I have tried using a site file and referencing the building in but the reference file doesn't want to duplicate itself properly when I copy all and paste, and the parts that do copy in are at the original 66' elevation. I think my referencing is where the solution lies? But I don't think my story elevations can follow the 2 building pad elevations from one model? The floor plans and site diagram shown are from the same model. Also I'm planning to reference in one set of dimensions and notes but looking for tips on best practices for that. The grid does a good job of following the building rotation for structural sameness in our calcs. Any help with repeated units that move up and down would be appreciated. I am willing to do the planning / layout work to make development and updates only needed to one building model. Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted November 27, 2024 Share Posted November 27, 2024 You might want to link this post to a Job listing here on the forum. Quote Link to comment
Scott Schwartz, AIA Posted November 27, 2024 Author Share Posted November 27, 2024 20 minutes ago, Jeff Prince said: You might want to link this post to a Job listing here on the forum. Meaning? No one would share this knowledge in a forum but only for money? LOL I have to imagine there are lots of architects dealing with similar issues. Quote Link to comment
BartH Posted November 27, 2024 Share Posted November 27, 2024 59 minutes ago, Scott Schwartz, AIA said: Meaning? No one would share this knowledge in a forum but only for money? LOL I have to imagine there are lots of architects dealing with similar issues. Your Subject Line reads like you are looking to hire a specialist to help with your modeling. Possibly the reason for the reference to the job board?? I'm not an expert on these nuances, but I think you need a design layer for each building. On each layer create a referenced viewport of the building On the elevated layers, adjust the layer elevation by +18" and rotate the referenced viewport 180 Deg. I think I would do all the dims etc. in the "master" file and not reference them in for fear of overlap and orientation issues. 2 Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted November 27, 2024 Share Posted November 27, 2024 1 hour ago, Scott Schwartz, AIA said: Meaning? No one would share this knowledge in a forum but only for money? LOL I have to imagine there are lots of architects dealing with similar issues. Sounded like a job ad to me. If you search the forum, there are many discussions about how to make this workflow successful. Quote Link to comment
Scott Schwartz, AIA Posted November 27, 2024 Author Share Posted November 27, 2024 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jeff Prince said: Sounded like a job ad to me. If you search the forum, there are many discussions about how to make this workflow successful. Yes, I tried searching for hours. Search tool is pretty lame for refence files and detailed specifics. No one is using Benchmark Elevations from one model's stories and automating what I'm trying to do AND talking about it the way I'm looking to use it. Hence I asked for a specialist, not chatter from those that don't know. Sorry if that sounded like an ad. I'll make it work, just trying to save some wheel spinning trial and error. Edited November 27, 2024 by Scott Schwartz, AIA Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted November 27, 2024 Share Posted November 27, 2024 7 minutes ago, Scott Schwartz, AIA said: not chatter from those that don't know Good luck buddy. Quote Link to comment
Scott Schwartz, AIA Posted November 27, 2024 Author Share Posted November 27, 2024 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Jeff Prince said: Good luck buddy. Yes, I need it here. Chatter is easy to come by on forums but solutions, not so much. Edited November 27, 2024 by Scott Schwartz, AIA Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted November 27, 2024 Share Posted November 27, 2024 Yes I would essentially do the same as @BartH. I'd have one file with the building model in it (ground floor level set to Z=0) + a second site model master file into which I'd reference in the building model as a Design Layer Viewport on it's own design layer. I'd then duplicate that layer + rotate the DLVP for the second building. The Story structure would be in the master file not the source file. I am not that hot on Stories but I think you'd need to accommodate the change in level between the two buildings via Levels rather than Stories i.e. you won't be able to have a Story structure for each building, you will need a single Story structure for the file + split the Levels between the two buildings (i.e. have 'B1' levels + 'B2' levels). But in this way you should be able to use story-bound Elev BMs in the master file (site model file) that show up correctly in all your VPs. 3 Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted November 28, 2024 Share Posted November 28, 2024 You can use storeys to set the level of the viewport created in the 'site' file easily enough. If you need to issue IFC, then some more thought would be required but as @Tom W. suggests, a viewport of the building, either by viewport referencing or even as creating a viewport within the building file, is possible. The issue with viewports though is that they rely on the original layer elevation being set to 0m, in order to then place them at the correct level, otherwise they have to be moved to the correct level. I can send you a video offlist. Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted November 28, 2024 Share Posted November 28, 2024 You could also create viewports of individual floors, and control their position by layer and storey. Requires a bit more management, but we do this all the time. 2 Quote Link to comment
Scott Schwartz, AIA Posted December 6, 2024 Author Share Posted December 6, 2024 I get this. I can manipulate these two models through all kinds of viewports easy enough. What I can’t do one rendering and mess with it in Enscape as a nice single model. And it’s absolutely ridiculous that I need to have entirely different names for all these design layers for each of the buildings if I reference them into one file. What happens if I have a complex with 20 identical story-built building models at different pad elevations? It does not appear. Vectorworks has thought this one out very well. Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted December 6, 2024 Share Posted December 6, 2024 Create a viewport for each building, comprising all layers of the building and duplicate the viewport for each duplicate building. Sounds like an Enscape issue though, since Vectorworks is perfectly capable of doing it's job. Quote Link to comment
Scott Schwartz, AIA Posted December 17, 2024 Author Share Posted December 17, 2024 On 12/6/2024 at 9:43 AM, shorter said: Create a viewport for each building, comprising all layers of the building and duplicate the viewport for each duplicate building. Sounds like an Enscape issue though, since Vectorworks is perfectly capable of doing it's job. It's a VW issue. I can't manipulate ONE rendering of ALL rendered on ONE site at once. It's a single image rendering I'm looking for. I don't want duplicate viewports to try and render for one final image. Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 Does anyone understand what @Scott Schwartz, AIA is after? 1 Quote Link to comment
BartH Posted December 18, 2024 Share Posted December 18, 2024 It sounds like @Scott Schwartz, AIA is looking to have multiple instances of a building placed on a site model and then create a rendering of that site. The suggestions here point to using several Referenced Design Layer View Ports to place the building model on the site model. Then, with the scene composed, create a single Sheet Layer Viewport for the final rendering. 1 Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 Yes, which is fairly easy to do but not sure what the problem is. It seems like Enscape isn't up to the job of rendering it? Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 1 hour ago, shorter said: Yes, which is fairly easy to do but not sure what the problem is. It seems like Enscape isn't up to the job of rendering it? I think he is either misunderstanding the process or not explaining what he needs to do correctly, either with a dash of frustration. I mean this thread sounded like a job ad at first 🙂 Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 7 hours ago, Jeff Prince said: I think he is either misunderstanding the process or not explaining what he needs to do correctly, either with a dash of frustration. I mean this thread sounded like a job ad at first 🙂 I know we often have complaints from Cinema 4D users that Cinema 4D cannot render things in the latest version of Vectorworks but that's because they are still using Vectorworks 12! It would be useful to see images of the problem. Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 My guess is that @Scott Schwartz, AIA is thinking that the suggestion is to use a bunch of 2d SLVPs on a sheet layer rather than a bunch of 3d DLVPs assembled in 3d on a design layer(s). 1 Quote Link to comment
bcd Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 On 11/26/2024 at 7:25 PM, Scott Schwartz, AIA said: Also, I need a way to render this. I can do overlapping viewports of perspective views but I can't do an Enscape render of all. What I can’t do one rendering and mess with it in Enscape as a nice single model. @Scott Schwartz, AIA Did you figure this part out? Having a single DL visible which contains multiple translated & rotated VPs of your building should render easily in Enscape I would have thought - I have a feeling you're missing a step. Test: Single building referenced as DLVP into drawing with terrain livesynced to Lumion. 2 Quote Link to comment
Scott Schwartz, AIA Posted December 22, 2024 Author Share Posted December 22, 2024 On 12/18/2024 at 2:47 PM, BartH said: It sounds like @Scott Schwartz, AIA is looking to have multiple instances of a building placed on a site model and then create a rendering of that site. The suggestions here point to using several Referenced Design Layer View Ports to place the building model on the site model. Then, with the scene composed, create a single Sheet Layer Viewport for the final rendering. Sorta. I tired to keep my question basic but it is a bit more complex than my first ask really. A conceptual model organization structure for multi-unit projects is what I need but here's some in-depth and hopefully more clear asks. I want a single site model and design layers that I can then draw all site items on once ALL my structures (maybe 2, maybe 50) are referenced in and set at a specific elevation and location. I need to draw walkways, drives, site walls, etc. up to each referenced in building and move my topography around. I would then create 2d and 3d views of that one "complied model". Should be super simple? Like an old school ACAD file with a slew of XREFs buildings in it then we drew in all the site elements. I can't even use the same layer names of even 2 buildings in the one file they are referenced to. And all of our model buildings use identical stories and level names with a different grade elevation. So what if I have a site with 10 identical units, each set onsite 4 times, with all 40 units at different grade elevations? All using stories and not 10 models requiring unique layer names per model? How does the organization of those design layers and stories even look so I can insert all these into one site plan? I thought I previously found a post @shorter has asked about accomplishing something similar with "grouped" stories but I can't find it again. @Jeff Prince you are super helpful, landscape man. Quote Link to comment
jpkna Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 12/22/2024 at 4:23 AM, Scott Schwartz, AIA said: I want a single site model and design layers that I can then draw all site items on once ALL my structures (maybe 2, maybe 50) are referenced in and set at a specific elevation and location. I need to draw walkways, drives, site walls, etc. up to each referenced in building and move my topography around. I would then create 2d and 3d views of that one "complied model". Should be super simple? I think it is as simple as has been described above: On 12/22/2024 at 4:23 AM, Scott Schwartz, AIA said: using several Referenced Design Layer View Ports to place the building model on the site model. Then, with the scene composed, create a single Sheet Layer Viewport for the final rendering. You will have: 1 Vectorworks file for the single building (I think yours contains 4 units?) 1 Vectorworks file for site terrain and walkways, driveways etc. Use Design Layer Viewport to reference the Building file into the Site file. Make sure it is using Design Layer Viewport Referencing instead of Layer Import Referencing. Duplicate the Design Layer Viewport and move it around/up and down to correct locations on the terrain. Make a sheet layer in the Site file and a single viewport to render the whole scheme. What is it about this process that isnt working for you? Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) @jpkna I am not sure the process is the problem, but the rendering of the result. I think we have all suggested the same, although I suggest an internal viewport since the original query requested one file solution. So as per your suggestion, one layer or layers contain the building models, one layer contains the site. The buildings are viewports located and distributed on the site layer. Well proven and successful solution, but... I don't use any rendering software so have no idea what Twin Motion or Enscape would make of this solution. It sounds like Enscape is not able to render the viewport correctly? @Scott Schwartz, AIA said "I can't manipulate ONE rendering of ALL rendered on ONE site at once. It's a single image rendering I'm looking for. I don't want duplicate viewports to try and render for one final image." What we are suggesting is in the design layer, not the sheet. The sheet would contain a sheet layer viewport of the design layer viewports and site combined for the 'final image'. Edited January 2 by shorter 1 Quote Link to comment
Scott Schwartz, AIA Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, jpkna said: I think it is as simple as has been described above: You will have: 1 Vectorworks file for the single building (I think yours contains 4 units?) 1 Vectorworks file for site terrain and walkways, driveways etc. Use Design Layer Viewport to reference the Building file into the Site file. Make sure it is using Design Layer Viewport Referencing instead of Layer Import Referencing. Duplicate the Design Layer Viewport and move it around/up and down to correct locations on the terrain. Make a sheet layer in the Site file and a single viewport to render the whole scheme. What is it about this process that isnt working for you? I've tried this and 10 units mean 10 uniquely names layers for buildings that are all the same assembly of identically named levels. All units are at different elevations. Quote Link to comment
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