mikeakar Posted October 30, 2024 Share Posted October 30, 2024 (edited) I think I am finally getting more confident in manipulating lights in vector works, but why does the entire image feel flat? Regardless of lights, the image just feels cartoonish. Any recommendations to getting this more realistic? Edited October 30, 2024 by mikeakar Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted October 30, 2024 Share Posted October 30, 2024 You don't have Environment Light set to 0.00 ? (Or deactivated, if you do not need Ambient Occlusion) Quote Link to comment
rDesign Posted October 30, 2024 Share Posted October 30, 2024 1) It does not seem like any of the surfaces have any reflections. Not having any reflections in a scene will make it look flat, cartoonish. Even matte or eggshell wall paint should have a little bit of reflection. 2) The stainless steel texture map on the refrigerator is not the best, with those light & dark horizontal stripes across the face. Doesn’t look real. 3) You said regardless of the lighting, but the lighting you’re showing doesn’t seem to match the shadows. Are you using custom lights with an IES file for the actual specified fixture? 4) And the Ambient lighting as Zoomer mentioned, there’s too much light on the ceiling or upper walls without any uplights. Turn off the ambient completely and then reassess your lighting approach. 3 Quote Link to comment
mikeakar Posted October 30, 2024 Author Share Posted October 30, 2024 Thank you! You are completely correct, I have to go back and make sure there are reflections in the material selections. I am using spot lights for these down lights. Do you use that lighting option for down lights? I turned on Ambient lighting to 80%, because it was too dark without it. I'm not sure why, because these southern facing windows should light up the space on its own. There is also a skylight in this room just a foot behind the view. I am including two images. The first is with no lights and no ambient lighting and using a heliodon, set to a summer morning. Using HDR Day background. The second is with just one spot light, "Use Emitter" at 1000. I feel like something is off. Shouldn't there be much more light coming in, in the first image? Given the conditions of the space. (Ignore the "light" inside the downlights, those are a glow material, made to make the light appear as if they are on. Also open to suggestions on this, is this what people do?) 1 Quote Link to comment
mikeakar Posted October 30, 2024 Author Share Posted October 30, 2024 5 hours ago, zoomer said: You don't have Environment Light set to 0.00 ? (Or deactivated, if you do not need Ambient Occlusion) I had Ambient lighting set to 80%, if that is what you are referring to. Please see my response above. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted October 30, 2024 Share Posted October 30, 2024 27 minutes ago, mikeakar said: I turned on Ambient lighting to 80%, because it was too dark without it. I'm not sure why, because these southern facing windows should light up the space on its own. There is also a skylight in this room just a foot behind the view. What are your Indirect Lighting settings? Quote Link to comment
mikeakar Posted October 30, 2024 Author Share Posted October 30, 2024 9 minutes ago, Tom W. said: What are your Indirect Lighting settings? Interior, 16 Bounces. Quote Link to comment
mikeakar Posted October 30, 2024 Author Share Posted October 30, 2024 10 minutes ago, Tom W. said: What are your Indirect Lighting settings? Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted October 30, 2024 Share Posted October 30, 2024 (edited) Ambient Occlusion 75% ? I use about 30-50% Size 4 Feet ? (1,2 m ?) I think that is way too big. I usually have 10-30 cm (4-12" ?) AO is (a fake) for small details, where the GI calculation is to coarse to show shadows of small details or it would need to much render time. But I don't think that's why it is too dark. Not 100% sure (but I think yes) if it is applicable to VW Cameras, as I always rendered in Cinema4D ... But in C4D I set a general realistic Daylight and/or Night Lighting Setup and, like in reality, each Camera got its individual Exposure Settings (Aperture for desired depth of field + suitable shutter speed) for desired resulting Brightness .... But I think, even with not correct exposure, you second render examples look much more realistic. Edited October 30, 2024 by zoomer Quote Link to comment
mikeakar Posted October 30, 2024 Author Share Posted October 30, 2024 20 minutes ago, zoomer said: Ambient Occlusion 75% ? I use about 30-50% Size 4 Feet ? (1,2 m ?) I think that is way too big. I usually have 10-30 cm (4-12" ?) AO is (a fake) for small details, where the GI calculation is to coarse to show shadows of small details or it would need to much render time. But I don't think that's why it is too dark. Not 100% sure (but I think yes) if it is applicable to VW Cameras, as I always rendered in Cinema4D ... But in C4D I set a general realistic Daylight and/or Night Lighting Setup and, like in reality, each Camera got its individual Exposure Settings (Aperture for desired depth of field + suitable shutter speed) for desired resulting Brightness .... But I think, even with not correct exposure, you second render examples look much more realistic. Thank you. I agree, it's much better. But the lighting still seems off even after reducing AO. See below. Also, I am including the shaded view, which is picking up the light from the skylight. But the render is not. Whats happening here? What types of lights do you use for interior spaces? Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted October 30, 2024 Share Posted October 30, 2024 1 minute ago, mikeakar said: What types of lights do you use for interior spaces? A bit embarrassing .... but as I mostly deal with larger industrial or office interiors, usually a Heliodon Daylight system and .... Glow Textures (!) interior. (Where glow Textures need a minimum aspect ratio of surface area vs intensity, to not result in a splotchy rendering. If not applicable because of Spots only and such, a Workaround is to spread larger glowing 2D surfaces, visible to GI and Reflection but invisible to Camera. Which AFAIK isn't possible in VW) Sorry, but when I started Visualization, a single 3D Tree had many times more geometry than the whole architecture together or over too many years more than 10 real Light Sources in Raytracing were not manageable. And for my special kind of work, render times always had priority over quality. 1 Quote Link to comment
mikeakar Posted October 30, 2024 Author Share Posted October 30, 2024 37 minutes ago, mikeakar said: Thank you. I agree, it's much better. But the lighting still seems off even after reducing AO. See below. Also, I am including the shaded view, which is picking up the light from the skylight. But the render is not. Whats happening here? What types of lights do you use for interior spaces? @Peter Neufeld. Do you have any suggestions here? Thank you for all your help. Quote Link to comment
rDesign Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 In the ‘Indirect Lighting Options’ of the RW Texture used in your storefront glazing, you should enable the ‘Portal’ setting. See screencap from Help File below about what it does. Enabling that might help with the quality of the Heliodon light coming through the storefront. Also do the same for the skylight glazing texture. Quote Link to comment
mikeakar Posted October 31, 2024 Author Share Posted October 31, 2024 21 minutes ago, rDesign said: In the ‘Indirect Lighting Options’ of the RW Texture used in your storefront glazing, you should enable the ‘Portal’ setting. See screencap from Help File below about what it does. Enabling that might help with the quality of the Heliodon light coming through the storefront. Also do the same for the skylight glazing texture. The Portal states: "This setting affects only renderings that use both indirect lighting and physical sky or panoramic image backgrounds for lighting." - Is that a HDRI background? How do I use a physical sky? Quote Link to comment
mikeakar Posted October 31, 2024 Author Share Posted October 31, 2024 (edited) 48 minutes ago, rDesign said: In the ‘Indirect Lighting Options’ of the RW Texture used in your storefront glazing, you should enable the ‘Portal’ setting. See screencap from Help File below about what it does. Enabling that might help with the quality of the Heliodon light coming through the storefront. Also do the same for the skylight glazing texture. I did this and I feel like the difference is negligible. First is before, second is after. Still not sure as to why the skylight lighting isn't coming through. Does it have to be in the frame? Edited October 31, 2024 by mikeakar Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted October 31, 2024 Share Posted October 31, 2024 7 hours ago, mikeakar said: Is that a HDRI background? I think yes. 7 hours ago, mikeakar said: How do I use a physical sky? You can choose one of both in your Render Style Settings under Lighting (?) or Background (?) Tab. AFAIR I always use "Physical Sky partly cloudy" or sunny (?) I have this all already setup/pre-set in my VW Template Files ..... 1 Quote Link to comment
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