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EAP on Vertical Plane, Unified View & Display Screen Objects


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When I make an extrude-along-path on a vertical plane, I start by drawing a polygon (the path) on the vertical plane. If I choose the Fillet tool to round the corners I get the message that says that I must turn on the “Display Screen Objects” option. That option is found in the Unified View Options dialogue, which in VW 2024, is now buried in the Legacy 2D tab of Document Preferences. So it appears my approach to modeling an EAP is now considered “Legacy” and perhaps will be phased out in the future. In my current example, I’m adding an electrical conduit to the side of this house. What is the recommended method for this modeling operation in 2024? I’ve never really understood Unified View. Is it being phased out?

 

If interested, see also my post from earlier this year (“EAP, Multiple Planes, Radiused Corners). Jeff Prince provided a nice video, although it does not help me with my confusion about “Unified View” and “Display Screen Objects”

 

Thanks,

Ed

Screen Shot 2024-10-25 at 9.59.04 AM.png

Edited by Ed Wachter
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  • Ed Wachter changed the title to EAP on Vertical Plane, Unified View & Display Screen Objects

No idea why that error message about Unified View.  I just tried in v2025 with default workspace and no problems.  Established a vertical working plane, drew a 2d poly, filleted the corners and ran the EAP.  Fillet also worked with a rectangle.

 

A possible workaround in v2024 is to draw a big 2d rectangle with fill on the working plane, then draw the conduit run as a polyline set to auto plane. Then try the fillet and EAP.

 

Anyone confirm this problem in v2024?

 

-B

 

filletonworkingplane.png.77bdc9c0443dce2af4703e4ffa9fa226.png

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Works here in VW2024 without issue.

You can also fillet the resulting Nurbs Curve after the EAP operation if needed.

I have a sense though I'm missing something.

 

The only difference I see is you're working in Perspective. Have you tried without perspective turned on?

 

image.png.349002cc221e5132592134b23e676d19.png

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21 hours ago, Ed Wachter said:

When I make an extrude-along-path on a vertical plane, I start by drawing a polygon (the path) on the vertical plane. If I choose the Fillet tool to round the corners I get the message that says that I must turn on the “Display Screen Objects” option. That option is found in the Unified View Options dialogue, which in VW 2024, is now buried in the Legacy 2D tab of Document Preferences. So it appears my approach to modeling an EAP is now considered “Legacy” and perhaps will be phased out in the future. In my current example, I’m adding an electrical conduit to the side of this house. What is the recommended method for this modeling operation in 2024? I’ve never really understood Unified View. Is it being phased out?

 

If interested, see also my post from earlier this year (“EAP, Multiple Planes, Radiused Corners). Jeff Prince provided a nice video, although it does not help me with my confusion about “Unified View” and “Display Screen Objects”

 

Thanks,

Ed

Screen Shot 2024-10-25 at 9.59.04 AM.png

 

This is happening because you have 'Enable legacy 2D features' enabled. Is there a reason you have them enabled? Do you need to work with Unified View turned off (i.e. have different views/scales/render modes on different Design Layers)? These features have been relegated to 'legacy' status because people aren't generally using them these days. So uncheck 'Enable legacy 2D features' + you should be fine.

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Thanks Tom & Benson,

Yes, it's true that I have "Enable legacy 2D feature" on, but it won't let me disable it. (See the attached message). To me, the message suggests that I should phase out my use of screen plane objects. I frequently assign 2D objects to the screen plane so they won't appear in 3D. Are we phasing out the screen plane and Unified View?

 

If I move 2D objects to the layer plane, how to I keep them from appearing in 3D views?

 

Ed

ScreenShot2024-10-28at11_52_25AM.thumb.png.cc37e11bd768a27c4f5ad2ceba92eb36.png

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On 10/26/2024 at 11:40 AM, Tom W. said:

Do you need to work with Unified View turned off

 

@Tom W. In our single Design Layer work flow Unified View is irrelevant, but Unified View has been a major pain. (see attached example from VW 2024) Selected items disappear unless there is movement / when rendered items visually move position on screen / items in ViewPorts render incorrectly

 

 

 

Recent FORUM post indicates Unified View is still an issue in VW2025 

 

 

The fix is to turn Unified View off (...or maybe turn it on). We wish Unified View would behave or go away. 

 

Peter

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10 minutes ago, Elite Exhibits said:

 

@Tom W. In our single Design Layer work flow Unified View is irrelevant, but Unified View has been a major pain. (see attached example from VW 2024) Selected items disappear unless there is movement / when rendered items visually move position on screen / items in ViewPorts render incorrectly

 

 

 

Recent FORUM post indicates Unified View is still an issue in VW2025 

 

 

The fix is to turn Unified View off (...or maybe turn it on). We wish Unified View would behave or go away. 

 

Peter

 

Have you sent a file to Tech Support or filed a bug? What was the response? I have never had any issues with Unified View being on. I have on several occasions had instances where an object + it's selection highlighting have become separated (which I think is what is being described in the other thread, initially at least...?) but the remedy was to close + reopen the file or perhaps the program... I just assumed it was VW telling me it needed a break 🙂

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5 hours ago, Tom W. said:

Have you sent a file to Tech Support or filed a bug?

 

@Tom W.affirmative ... Pre Pandemic / maybe 2018(?) / at the time - worked on a different computer / at a different company /  different email / different VW license number - no resolution

 

So ...

 

First noticed this bug as geometry or parts of geometry that would be selected yet not visible or partially visible except when zoom, pan or rotating. 

 

Peter

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@Tom W. I have not contacted Tech Support or filed a bug. The issue is not really interfering with my work. It sounds like I shouldn’t have to Display Screen Objects just to use the Fillet tool, but for now, that’s what I have to do. I mainly wanted to understand Unified View and Screen Plane. I now I understand that Screen Plane is deprecated, so I think that means we should start moving away from it. Our office has always relied on screen plan to hide 2D objects on 3D views. I suppose we’ll just add some more design layers (or classes) to accomplish that. I now also understand that Unified View has been a widespread problem and it probably accounts for some display glitches we see in our office. Thanks all for the comments.

 

Ed

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15 hours ago, Ed Wachter said:

Screen Plane is deprecated

@Pat Stanford @Ed Wachter @Tom W. I find it a bit humorous when I see this comment "Screen Plane is deprecated"  and I proceed to make a Hybrid Symbol (VW 2024) with a 2D Item that is a "Screen Plane" component (...only it is now described in the Create Symbol Dialog box as "Top/Plan Component"). 

 

¿ It looks like & acts like a Screen Plane object ?  Check the Enable Legacy... in the Document Settings and the OIP even says it is a Screen Plane Object.(See Attached)

 

 

Ed, your "Our office has always relied on screen plane to hide 2D objects on 3D views" comment is still 100% valid. If you need to, 2D annotations on a Sheet Layer or inside a ViewPort (...as ViewPort annotations are all 2D Screen Plane) will cover up "3D" items that are part of the Viewport itself (Based on the Layer & Class settings). Our workflow relies on at least two types of standard VW 2D Screen Plane components. 

      1. Annotations (as noted above, these are always Screen Plane). Inside of a ViewPort, Screen Plane Annotations add information and they also are used to fix or modify issues with the rendered viewport(s).

 

We rely on 2D/3D Hybrid Symbols (thousands of them ...)

    2. The 2D / Screen Plane / Top/Plan component of a Hybrid is key to VectorWorks long standing ability to automatically make a visually complete Top/Plan view, while also creating 3D Renderings from the same Design Layer. VW accomplishes this without the double work legacy CAD applications have. ie: 2D Layer (Class) and 3D Layer (Class) needed  to separate the 2D from the 3D for the same item.

 

This is one take I use with VW people I have coached. Screen Plane is 2D - as you noted, based on how it is implemented, 2D Screen Plane geometry has the ability to cover other geometry.

     Screen Plane geometry does not move in the "Z Direction"  

It might be called Page Based geometry as changing 3D views does not alter where basic Screen Plane geometry  appears on the page.

 

Layer Plane is Flat 3D - essentially the same as an Extrude set so "Z=Zero".            Layer Plane geometry has the ability to move in the "Z Direction" or change orientation from where it was created (Top / Front / Right etcetera).

 

 

Hierarchy (Send to Front...) is maintained with Screen Plane geometry 

 

Hierarchy might be different with Layer Plane geometry  if the "Z" location is initially different or has been altered. This is often a point of confusion for those who have yet to see that Layer Plane geometry  is just Flat 3D geometry.

 

Our workflow has the Screen Plane  option on as it simplifies / speeds the creation of many designs. 

 

Peter 

Screen Plane is now called Top:Plan Component_01.pdf

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@Ed Wachter I posted about that exact issue (Screen Plane being used to assign geometry to symbol's 2D component) when they started deprecating the screen plane because it was really screwing up my workflow at the time.  I would typically model the object in 3D, create a symbol, then add the necessary 2D components while editing the symbol, then send the 2D components to the screen plane to create my hybrid symbol.  With the screen plane depracated, I had to enable the legacy features to accomplish this.

 

I had an email back and forth with someone from Vectorworks with a video showing my workflow, and they said they would investigate enabling the Plane dropdown in the Object Info Palette while editing symbols, with "Screen Plane" replaced with "2D Component", but that obviously hasn't happened.

 

I changed my workflow a bit, I now model the 3D geometry, group it, enter the group edit container and toggle off the Show Other Objects in Edit Mode option so that I'm only looking at the symbol geometry, then build all of my 2D geometry.  The Ungroup and Make Symbol.

 

If I need to add 2D elements from inside the 3D edit container, I use this script:

PROCEDURE SendToScreenPlane;

CONST

	kScreenPlane = 1160;

VAR

	parentHd,waldo:HANDLE;

PROCEDURE Execute(h:HANDLE);

	BEGIN
		IF(GetParent(h) = parentHd) THEN SetObjectVariableBoolean(h,kScreenPlane,TRUE);
	END;
	
BEGIN
	Locus(0,0);
	waldo:=LNewObj;
	parentHd:=GetParent(waldo);
	DelObject(waldo);
	
	ForEachObject(Execute,(INSYMBOL & (SEL)));
END;

Run(SendToScreenPlane);

 

This will send whatever is selected inside the edit container to the screen plane without triggering the Enable Legacy Features option.  But do know that you must be in Top view before running the script to maintain accurate placement.  Also, if you run it and the symbol doesn't currently have 2D geometry, the objects will remain selected and editable until you exit the container, when you will get the warning about the symbol becoming a hybrid.  Final warning: this will not work properly for geometry created with the Extract Surface tool, it will technically work, but the geometry will be offset based on the symbol's location relative to the internal origin.

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@Elite Exhibits, @Jesse Cogswell, Thanks for the explanations. I understand most of it.  So, when making hybrid symbols, the 2D objects are now called Top Plan Components. But what about 2D objects that are not inside symbols? We add a certain amount of 2D stuff on all of our design layers (property lines, utility lines, grid lines, dashed lines for objects above or below, etc). To keep those from appearing in 3D we have used the screen plane. How do you suggest we now hide them (except in Top Plan)? Do I need to add 2D design layers?

 

Ed

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Giving each of theses element types their own Class will allow you to control both how and whether they appear in the SLVP.

You can also create and apply Viewport Styles that have such Classes set to invisible by default.

Edited by bcd
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44 minutes ago, Ed Wachter said:

How do you suggest we now hide them (except in Top Plan)? Do I need to add 2D design layers?

 

I put 2D stuff on dedicated 'Annotations-' design layers at the top of the stacking order. Most 2D geometry I include in viewport annotations but same as you I want Property Lines, Grid Lines, various boundary lines + pipe/cable runs on the design layer. Here their visibility is controlled by Saved Views but mostly I use them in viewports.

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Thanks again all! As of VW2024, the OIP still has a "Plane" pull-down that includes "Screen" as an option. So does the "deprecated" status begin with 2025? I don't yet know how seriously to take this. Do I need to convince my co-workers that we need to change our template and workflow? (I have not downloaded 2025 yet).

 

Ed

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The Unified View and Screen Plane settings have not changed in VW2025.  I honestly don't know when we can expect them to be entirely removed.  I can't speak for Vectorworks, but I think there would need to be a major change under the hood to with regards to how Vectorworks uses the Screen Plane for plug-in object and symbol 2D components before they could remove it completely.  They might be waiting until 2027 or 2028 when they go full subscription so they don't have to support legacy features as much.

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