Wall Join?

[Landartma]

How is it that when I connect two walls with a wall and go to wall join its says parts do not completely intersect?  Isn't that why we have Wall Join?   If the walls aren't joined the retaining wall modifier goes wonky because it does not know where to go because the walls aren't joined.

[Landartma]

How do I get around this.  Do I create separate modifiers for each wall?  The wall modifier does not recognize the walls as being connected.  What am I missing?

[Tom W.]

41 minutes ago, Landartma said:

How is it that when I connect two walls with a wall and go to wall join its says parts do not completely intersect?  Isn't that why we have Wall Join?   If the walls aren't joined the retaining wall modifier goes wonky because it does not know where to go because the walls aren't joined.

 

You are using T Join Mode instead of L Join Mode.

[Landartma]

I get the same thing in both modes when I go to to the retaining wall modifier.

[Tom W.]

Can you just reshape the modifier manually...?

[Landartma]

Unfortunately it wont let me modify in plan view only vertically so I cant just drag the vertex into place.  It seems as if VW has real trouble with curves.  For the purposes of the wall modifier it just does not want to recognize joined walls that are curved.

 

[rDesign]

@Landartma In 2024 you are able to switch from drawing a Wall to a Curved Wall without changing tools by switching to a different mode (from Linear mode to Arc by Three Points mode, for example).

 

Then the problem of joined walls is not an issue with the Retaining Wall Site Modifiers, but –

 

I do not know the Create Retaining Wall Site Modifier command very well, so I could be using it incorrectly (entirely possible) - but when I did a quick test with some joined walls similar to your example, I get the same wonky Retaining Wall Site Modifiers that you see. And I do not see a way to correct the errant points after the fact.

 

So I don't think the wonky Retaining Wall Site Modifier is happening because the Walls are not joined – I think it is happening because the tool does not seem to like Curved Walls. It feels like a bug to me.

 

EDIT: I tried again with Walls having only straight segments, no curved wall – and it worked correctly as expected. (So not user error.)

 

@Tamsin Slatter - is there something that we're missing here, in that it doesn't seem like the Create Retaining Wall Site Modifiers works correctly with Curved Wall segments? Thanks.

 

Vw2024 test file attached.

 

 

retaining wall test 2024.vwx

Edited September 8 by rDesign

[Tom W.]

7 hours ago, rDesign said:

it doesn't seem like the Create Retaining Wall Site Modifiers works correctly with Curved Wall segments?

 

9 hours ago, Landartma said:

It seems as if VW has real trouble with curves.  For the purposes of the wall modifier it just does not want to recognize joined walls that are curved.

 

Ah yes I remember this coming up before now...

 

 

[rDesign]

@TomW - thanks for posting that old thread about the same issue. Disappointing that Vw hasn’t resolved this in 3 years.

[Tom W.]

Thanks for the file @rDesign I fiddled around with the Reshape tool + managed to correct it:

 

 

 

You can double-click (or Command-[ or right-click > Edit) on the modifier to edit the path.

[Landartma]

I had no luck with the reshape tool in the retaining wall site modifier as it only allows adjustments up and down add and delete vertices unless I am missing something.

[Landartma]

@rDesign, yea it always breaks where the straight segment runs into the curve.  If the wall actually joined I don't think this would be an issue.  This is a constant problem with VW at least in my experience.

[Landartma]

@Tamsin Slatter yes you are correct there is a defect that at least I have been dealing with since I started using VW a number of years ago.  For some reason curved walls do not like to join and when the retaining wall site modifier is applied you get really wonky geometry and the site rarely fills correctly.  The site modifier can simply just be put back into place where it belongs because the edit function on the vertices are only up and down unless you add a vertex to pull the modifier up or down at a specific point.

[Landartma]

@Tom W. how did you reign in the errant wall modifier?  Is there a setting that allows it to be moved horizontally. That would solve a bunch of problems. 

[Landartma]

@rDesign I always draw the walls in continuous lines as you described its when you go to create objects from shapes that it breaks the wall.  I tried using the wall tool and still got the same result.

[rDesign]

On 9/9/2024 at 7:51 AM, Tom W. said:

You can double-click (or Command-[ or right-click > Edit) on the modifier to edit the path.

 

I'm still not able to fix the path - how did you fix it? Whether I try to fix the path with the Reshape tool, or by Editing the Pate – it looks correctbut you can still see the incorrect Site Modifiers. I can't fix it like you were able to.

 

Attempt using Reshape tool, note the middle blue 'knot' is already on the midpoint of the wall:

 

And attempt to Edit the Path, the path already looks correct:

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Landartma said:

@rDesign I always draw the walls in continuous lines as you described its when you go to create objects from shapes that it breaks the wall.  I tried using the wall tool and still got the same result.

 

Yeah, I know – in my previous post, I said that I got the same results as you. I don't know how @Tom W. was able to fix it. 

Edited September 12 by rDesign

[Tom W.]

5 hours ago, rDesign said:

I'm still not able to fix the path - how did you fix it? Whether I try to fix the path with the Reshape tool, or by Editing the Pate – it looks correctbut you can still see the incorrect Site Modifiers. I can't fix it like you were able to.

 

I checked + what I did was move the bezier control point on the adjacent curve out very slightly + for some reason that corrected the straight section. Not a very satisfying solution + something clearly wrong for this to be the case but in the meantime hopefully the modifiers being out by half a mm or whatever it is will make a massive difference in the grand scheme of things...?

 

 

 

[rDesign]

@TomW - thanks for your reply, I never would have thought to try that. While that works, it clearly cannot be “working as designed”.

[Tom W.]

2 minutes ago, rDesign said:

it clearly cannot be “working as designed”.

 

Not even by VW standards!!

[rDesign]

I just opened that same sample file in Vw2025, and it still creates the messed up Retaining Wall Site Modifier. It needs the same slight movement of one adjacent bezier points on the curve to fix it. I don't know if anyone has submitted this as a bug, but I'll submit one for it. 

[Landartma]

I will dig into what you did @Tom W. and see if I can make it work.  I think VW knows of this issue...I have discussed this before.  I would be open to ditching the whole wall tool for landscape walls and just 3d model it.  I spend way to much time screwing with wonky wall modifiers to make them worth using.  Although I have seen it done I don't understand how to create custom site modifiers from line work.  If anyone can provide clarity on that I'm all ears and eyes.  

[Tom W.]

22 minutes ago, Landartma said:

I think VW knows of this issue...I have discussed this before.

 

Yes there was that thread in 2021 as well but that time + now no one from VW commented + I can see no indication that anyone made a bug report about it - unless you know different? If it's important to you filing a bug would be the best course of action:

 

https://www3.vectorworks.net/vectorworks-bug-report

 

@rDesign also offered to file a bug if someone confirmed none had previously been submitted.

 

I rarely use retaining wall modifiers or curved walls for that matter

[rDesign]

I filed a bug report / support request yesterday - I haven’t heard anything back yet. I’ll post back when / if I hear something.
 

I don’t use it that often, but since it has been around for 4 years, it seems like it needs to be fixed — or at least brought (back) to their attention.

Edited September 14 by rDesign

[Landartma]

So what are you guys doing for curved walls and site modifiers to get proposed grade correct?

[Tom W.]

15 minutes ago, Landartma said:

So what are you guys doing for curved walls and site modifiers to get proposed grade correct?

 

I like my walls square 🙂 

 

Plus it's hardly the Alps around here: there's not an awful lot to retain 😆

[Landartma]

So we are supposed to limit our designs to squares and rectangles?  Yes its definitely not the alps its only around 6' in grade change between the two walls.  This is pretty basic design work should be no problem for the software to handle.