full keyboard entry

[ionw]

This isn't something that happens often, but the other day we were handed a sketch of a house plan w/ dimensions and we needed to input it to start working drawings.

To start laying out I thought to use the polygon to make the exterior foot print, use the Walls from Polygon tool and go from there.

The problem I found is there seems to be no way to do true keyboard entry. Using the mouse and the data display bar allows one to do relative movements (i.e. move 12' @ -90? from there move 14' @ 0? and so on) but one has to click the mouse at each vertex.

Using the Create polygon (dbl clk on the palette tool) would allow one to not touch the mouse, but instead of specifying a starting point and then adding vertices relative to that starting point ( see i.e. last paragraph). I don't really want to turn the sketch into a grid to figure out the actual grid points of the vertices.

I see two possibly easy fixes:

When using the data display bar have one enter accept the value and another (say Cmd-Enter) set the vertex and start you on the next point.

In the Create Polygon tool have one option for real coordinates and another for relative.

thanks

[jan15]

Full keyboard entry of numeric data IS possible, and it's incredibly fast and easy.

1. Start dragging the mouse.

2. Hit the numeric keypad Enter key, and the first data bar value is highlighted. If a value is typed now, it replaces the value set by the mouse position.

3. Hitting the numeric keypad Enter key again locks the value in the first data bar, and moves on to the second data bar.

4. Repeat as above for as many data values as you want to set via keyboard, and then release the mouse button. Any value not entered by the above steps is determined by the mouse position.

[ionw]

Thanks for your reply, and maybe I'm a bit slow, but it seems to me you've actually highlighted what I am complaining about. I want to do the action you are describing, say 13 times to define a plan without using the mouse (button or otherwise) except the beginning and possibly the end.

I want to do this:

1. click with the mouse and start dragging (I'm a clk-clk person) to start my polygon(line)

2. hit either numeric enter or the tab key to go into data entry mode.

3. Enter in the length and angle (or delta x,y) values to define segment one. hitting numeric enter to accept each value.

4. now that the segement is fully defined instead of clicking the mouse to end segment one and start entering values for segment two...I want a keyboard command that is "equivilant" to the mouse click, so that once I start using the keyboard I don't have to take my hands off it.

[i seem to remember from the boards that you are a left hand mouse user saving your dominant hand for the keyboard so this might not bother you as it does me]

While I am at this it would be nice to use a space to differentiate betwixt feet & inches.

thanks

[jan15]

Ion, you're right, of course. There's no way to draw without using the mouse at all. You've got to use a mouse or digitizer as part of the drawing process. And yes, I mouse with my left hand, so that I can use the mouse and the numeric keypad at the same time.

By the way, I never do what you're trying to do, even though it would be easy with this left-mouse system. I only use the Polyline or Polygon tool if there are already points to snap to. To draw from field measurement notes, I draw exclusively with rectangles, adding and subtracting them to get the more complex shapes. It's very fast, helped by having the Add and Clip Surface commands assigned to the F11 and F12 function keys (via a macro editor).

As for feet and inches entry, if you were touch-typing on the numeric keypad it would be easy to type *12+ after the number of feet (though I don't do that, since I've macro'd the Keypad Star key to produce a single-quote character, so keypadding 12*6 gives me 12'6).

[ionw]

You of course have excellent points, and I also use the rectangle solution as well [i've added the clip/add commands to the contextual menus for easy access]

This project was one of the few that it would have been easier the other way 'round.

I forgot that you have been a large proponent of keyboard macro utilities, and remapping the numeric keypad is an excelllent idea.

I use the ability to do math in data entry boxes often and as you point out it would work here, just a question of is it easier to reorient your hand to get the foot marker, or to hit four keys to achieve the same result '*' '1' '2' '+'

Thanks for your input here, and I appreciate the time and energy you put to the rest of the boards.

[Mark McCay-Moran]

Years ago I was forced (ugh) to use DataCad in an office and I remember finding it odd that it inerprets 12.6 as 12'-6". Just didn't seem logical. However, coming back home to VW I can't help but feel they were on to something--its just so awkward to type 12'6 from either keypad! I find I often type in inches only where I can get away with it (sometimes solving fairly complex conversions in my head--ie: 17"-5" --whose got their "17 tables" memorized?

There's got to be a better way to enter common foot-inch dimensions.

[jan15]

Mark: I like that DataCad thing you described, where the keypad decimal point means feet when the dimension system is feet and inches.

But I'm sure a lot of people would react against it, as you said you did originally. That always happens with anything non-standard, and besides, I think there are good reasons why some people would object to it.

The best way to solve this would be to build in a macro utility. Then you and I could type 17.5 to mean 17 feet 5 inches, and people who object to that wouldn't have to use it.

Macros would also solve 90 percent of the other complaints people submit to this forum about the user interface.

[matto]

just a question on the 17.5 to mean 17'5".

In Australia we use metric for all drawings althought the change from imperial is within the lifetime of alot of people we deal with. so the ability to enter imperial on the fly is very handy.

i just imagine the reverse would be true for you guys using imperial, that you the abilty to enter metric data and have it convert to imperial, for info in catalogues from europe and such.

The other way to handle this may be to have a keyboard mapping toogle in VW, i mean if the programme could be made to believe that the . key on the keypad was really a ' key

then you type 17.5 on the keypad it would appear on screen and to the programme to be 17'5, but if you typed on the keyboard it would appear as 17.5 proper.

just an idea.

it would also be nice if they added local hot keys inside all the dialog boxes, just like in layers, so that all tasks within a dialog box could be completed on the keyboard.

[Thomas Wagensommerer]

What about typing 17..5 - The double dot could be matched to '

[jan15]

Thomas: That's a good idea, too. It would suit me, and I can't offhand think of anything that anyone would object to about it. Maybe even 17..-5... could mean 17'-5", which would also cover people who don't use associative dimensioning but instead fill in the dimension text manually.

iboymatt: I've never thought about that before, but after I read your post I tried it and found I could negotiate all the dialogue boxes with the keyboard, using a combination of Tab, Shift-Tab, the arrow keys, and certain letter keys and Alt-letter key combinations. Is it different on a Mac?

[matto]

jan15: we can move around dialogue boxes with the tab, and shift tab on all dialog boxes, but we can't activate buttons (like add point in the polygon dialog) with unless it has been assigned a command key combo (i guess this is alt key combo on windows).

A lot of dialogs have keys, like layers dialog. and you can add, remove and shift layers going minutes without touching the mouse.

but other like polygons don't have local keys, so you need to move to the mouse to add each point. (just checked VW10.5 as well)

this double dot method could used for angles as well

so that 36.5 is 36.5?

but typing 36...5...10 could be 36?5'10" which is 36.0861?

sure is more key taps but it's not a lot of hand movement