Cristiano Alves Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Hello everyone. To this day I have taken everyday steps of knowledge within Vectorworks, and I find it an incredible software. The only problem that I have not yet been able to find a real way to solve, or a really good and practical workflow to solve the problem I have always come across with the documentation of totems (towers with objects). Today I saw this article: https://blog.vectorworks.net/store-and-convey-multiple-representations-with-hybrid-symbols My question is this: How does an object have all these views, and yet, it is presented in this way in a TOP/Plan view? TOP/Plan 3D Wireframe 3D Shaded This type of wrong representation has already led to a lot of problems of wrong setting up the projects at the venue. How do you deal with this type of documentation? It would be good for the Vectorworks team to have a plan to improve this problem, as well as documentation in FRONT VIEW, of this type of projects Quote Link to comment
Kevin McAllister Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 It looks like part of your object (a symbol within a symbol) was not designed to be rotated in 3d. The plan view of one of the elements is out of sync with its 3d view. Note that all of the various 2d views within a symbol are user generated. If it's a stage lighting setup there are specific methods to present instruments hung on booms. Kevin 2 Quote Link to comment
Cristiano Alves Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 On 5/27/2024 at 4:53 AM, Kevin McAllister said: It looks like part of your object (a symbol within a symbol) was not designed to be rotated in 3d. The plan view of one of the elements is out of sync with its 3d view. Note that all of the various 2d views within a symbol are user generated. If it's a stage lighting setup there are specific methods to present instruments hung on booms. Kevin I'm using symbols from the Vectorworks fixture library, this happens with any symbol. It seems that Vectorworks is only designed so that we can make assemblies observable in the TOP view. I'm probably missing something here. On 5/27/2024 at 4:53 AM, Kevin McAllister said: If it's a stage lighting setup there are specific methods to present instruments hung on booms. I don't know of a practical and easy way to solve this problem, I've even contacted support and haven't been able to get any effective help. What I have been using is the Wireframe or Shaded view, but schematically it is not something so simple or that it looks so beautiful in the document to specify this. So could you explain to me these methods for representing instruments hung on booms? Thank you very much. I don't know of a practical and easy way to solve this problem, I've even contacted support and haven't been able to get any effective help. What I have been using is the Wireframe or Shaded view, but schematically it is not something so simple or that it looks so beautiful in the document to specify this. So could you explain to me these methods for representing instruments hung on booms? Thank you very much. Quote Link to comment
Kevin McAllister Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Are you able to share the file from your example? Mark Doubleday's video on schematic views may be helpful to you - Kevin Quote Link to comment
Cristiano Alves Posted August 20 Author Share Posted August 20 First I'm sorry, I didnt know why I didn't see the notifications for this post. Thank you for your help On 5/29/2024 at 4:21 AM, Kevin McAllister said: Are you able to share the file from your example? Check the attached file On 5/29/2024 at 4:21 AM, Kevin McAllister said: Mark Doubleday's video on schematic views may be helpful to you - The methodology presented in the video for project documentation in Vectorworks is an overly convoluted process. If a single step is missed, the entire workflow breaks down, forcing me to start from scratch. This has been extremely frustrating and has negatively impacted my workflow. What perplexes me even more is the fact that lighting objects, which are also hybrids, do not follow the same "rules" as other hybrid objects. They should, but that's not the case. Top/Plan Top (Wireframe) (real positioning) I have contacted support multiple times, even to inquire about cable orientation issues that sometimes appear incorrect in the Top/Plan view. Unfortunately, the responses I received were inconclusive and, worse still, did not solve the problem. Honestly, I wonder how many projects don't have equipment set up this way. I bet it's very few. Yet, there doesn't seem to be a practical solution for documenting these setups. Seriously, what is the best way to document this projects? Time and time again, they present in their videos with raked truss, lighting on totems, and other setups that look completely incorrect when viewed in Top/Plan. In the end, maybe it would be useful to create a "Front/Plan" view—I don't know... I'm sure I'm not the only one facing this problem, and it's frustrating to think that despite reporting these issues countless times, it seems like no one on the Vectorworks team is listening. This method is simply not practical and makes day-to-day work a real headache. I sincerely hope that someone from the team can finally pay attention to this issue and help us find a solution. Quote Link to comment
ratherfishing Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 Lot of us here totally know what you are saying. Your issue is a total classic and will appear in many situations. I try to give some context to help. Im sure you already know some/a lot of this. First of all, Lighting Devices are (as I tell this to myself) Plug-in objects, not symbols. Lighting instrument insertion tool activates when you double-click the fixture in Recource Manager. The tool takes the symbol, does its own thing to it, and puts it into the drawing. The tools has a mind of its own. Point being, inserting Lighting device is not the same thing as inserting symbol, even though this is not obvious. The part of the manual you link is about hybrid symbols. Lighting Device can not use the hybrid function completely. The functionality is coming, I have been told. Technically, I think this is answer to your original question. Top/Plan is special view, using 2d components of objects. 2d component can be anything, whatever is the geometry in 2d component of obect. In your fixture, 2d component is built to represent the fixture in certain orientation. Your actual orientation is different, and 2d component has no idea about it. 2d component is not dynamic with fixtures (as sort of explained earlier), so it just shows the only thing it knows. There are few easy ways to tackle this: 1) delete the whole 2d component of the fixture (go to edit 2d component, select everyhting-delete). It will force the 3d geometry to show up in Top/Plan. May not look so nice, but sort of fixes the problem. 2) edit the 2d component of the fixture to represent needed orientation. You can also have a few versions of 2d components in different classes, and turning those classes on/off you can select needed component to match 3d orientation What is good about option 1 is that it will show the fixture (or whatever symbol) correctly even if you go for very odd/random/varying-angles. Option number 2 is what I have done in this same situation. 1 Quote Link to comment
Cristiano Alves Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 (edited) I understand but.... this works much better on other softwares. For example, forget the fixture objects... See the attached file and the images. What I do wrong? What I can do to have a good report? TOP/PLAN TOP (Wireframe) Custom View ("ISO") Structure Spikies Forum.vwx Edited September 6 by Cristiano Alves Quote Link to comment
Kevin McAllister Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 (edited) 11 hours ago, Cristiano Alves said: I understand but.... this works much better on other softwares. For example, forget the fixture objects... See the attached file and the images. What I do wrong? What I can do to have a good report? I'm pretty sure this must be a bug of some sort. Somehow the 2d and 3d parts of the lighting position are out of sync. Usually these are managed in a symbol but these positions aren't connected to a symbol, at least not one that users can see. There was a symbol creation bug not too long ago where the 2d component used the document origin for its origin but the 3d component did not. I wonder if it's affecting this plugin. Kevin Edited September 7 by Kevin McAllister Quote Link to comment
Kevin McAllister Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 (edited) This is the bug thread I was referring to - @Cristiano Alves what version of Vectorworks are you running? Your signature shows 2023.... KM Edited September 7 by Kevin McAllister Quote Link to comment
Cristiano Alves Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 On 9/7/2024 at 5:55 AM, Kevin McAllister said: This is the bug thread I was referring to - @Cristiano Alves what version of Vectorworks are you running? Your signature shows 2023.... KM I am using the 2024, last service pack! Quote Link to comment
Cristiano Alves Posted September 24 Author Share Posted September 24 (edited) Past my last 6 hours trying to solve this... It's frustrating... The best result I obtained was to stop using the "Lighting Pipe" and modulate the structure in 3D, however, the pipes where I have the fixtures continue to have a completely erratic arrangement. This was the best result: I made a group with all these elements and the problem is when I try to rotate the group. I've already tried different approaches and different lighting pipe angles, but the problem remains. Spikies Exemple V2.vwx Does anyone have any advice to give me on this subject? thank you I attached the project file on the post. Edited September 24 by Cristiano Alves Quote Link to comment
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