Problem with MAC OS Sonoma 14.5

[Raph]

Hello everybody,

 

Are you also experiencing problems with the new version of MAC OS Sonoma 14.5?

Since I installed it, I've had display latencies on Vectorworks 2024 SP4.

Do you have the same problem?

 

Have a nice day

Edited May 22, 2024 by Raph

[Dagny]

I have problems with Mac Os Sonoma 14.4.1 - Vectorworks is "Lagging" and spinning wheel keeps driving me crazy. I am considering updating to Sonoma 14.5, but want I  to check how it works for other people. I try to work with both Vectorworks 2023 and 2024. I havce an Apple M1 Max from 2021 32GB, and I try both with an external screen (AOC) and only on my laptop.

What kind of issues do you experience? Is there any way to make it work better?

[KevinF1973]

I started noticing an issue last night.

[Pat Stanford]

Do the update to 14.5.  There is a known problem between VW2024 (and many other programs including Pages) and MacOS14.4 (and 4.1).

 

You will be much happier on 14.5

[DomC]

Hello
I got a new MacBook Pro m3 end last year. I have sonoma 14.3. After setup my new system i had a short time of very big frustration because the performance was not as i excpected. Slow and epic lags (4 seconds or more and juddery).Also other things worked laggy like text editor or Filemaker. But there i am not so sensible.

I think those was lags maybe another user could would take as "normal" and ignore it but i compared to my 2018 intel mac it was slower. On the internal Monitor everything was fast very fast and smooth. Also with a new user (which is often the workflow to test if it is something related to settings of the system) I found the option "screens uses different spaces" (which is translated from my german version. Do not know, if this is the exact name of the option in english too) which was turned off. After switching it on (which does make not difference for me to work) it is the best performance i ever dreamed of and very stable. Maybe can you look at that option @Dagny? 




I fellow just updated his intel Mac on 14.5 and have issues. The other fellows with a Apple silicon not issues after updating on 14.5
So personally i will stay on 14.3 till i can take the risk of something do not work anymore.

Edited May 24, 2024 by DomC

[raouls]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:30 AM, Raph said:

Hello everybody,

 

Are you also experiencing problems with the new version of MAC OS Sonoma 14.5?

Since I installed it, I've had display latencies on Vectorworks 2024 SP4.

Do you have the same problem?

 

Have a nice day

I have found a significant graphics lag with VW2024 SP4 since updating from OS14.1 to 14.5 on a M1 Max MBP with a secondary screen. My work around has been to work on a single screen, rather than having tools on one screen and drawing on the other screen.

 

Given that there appears to be a few of us having issues, I do hope that there is a fix available soon.

[DomC]

Hi @raouls

I wonder, it that option on your spaces settings (print screen german version above) was on or off?

[raouls]

10 hours ago, DomC said:

Hi @raouls

I wonder, it that option on your spaces settings (print screen german version above) was on or off?

Hi @DomC. That spaces setting was 'On', turning it off, has allowed me to revert back to a duel screen setup. Thank you for the post and suggestion. Out of interest was it the same for yourself?

[DomC]

hi @raouls
For me it works, when the option is ON. For you it works when this option is off. What i observed is the following:

1. I have the main Window on the external screen, second screen is internal display of mac book
2. Vectorworks is startet on the external screen
3. If The Vectorworks  border nearer than 3 cm on the screen border where the internal display is arranged i have epic lags for different actions. Also other Things seems to get slow (Finder)
4. If i drag the VW Window away from the border it is getting fast as expected
5. If i turn ON (Screens uses different spaces) it also works as expected and i can work with a miximized Vectorworks Window

So i am little puzzled. I i update my OS, it looks like, that i have to switch OFF the Option again.

[raouls]

Morning @DomC,

 

Thank you for the insight. Before updating to OSX 14.5 'Spaces' was always on and I never had an issue, albeit I was only on OSX14.1. My issue has only arisen since updating OSX where Vectorworks will only work for me (using duel screen) if I turn the Spaces option 'Off'.

I did try moving the main window more than 3cm from the edge but it made no difference for me.

 

As you say, an odd issue but definitely (with my setup anyway) caused by Spaces in so far as soon as I turn this off, everything works (speed wise) as expected.

[Jay Punt]

I am running Sonoma 14.5 on my iMac, which I purchased in 2022. My Pages app crashes within 20 seconds each time I try to use it. 

 

I have updated Pages and it continues to crash.  Anyone else experience similar problems? Anyone have a fix for this or can you suggest another program similar to pages?

 

Thank you in advance.

[Jon Buswell]

On 5/24/2024 at 1:02 AM, Pat Stanford said:

Do the update to 14.5.  There is a known problem between VW2024 (and many other programs including Pages) and MacOS14.4 (and 4.1).

 

You will be much happier on 14.5

 

Hi,

I'm running VW 2024 Update 5 and Sonoma 14.5 and this has to be the worst laggy performance I've experienced since VW 2019. When I zoom using the mouse wheel nothing happens until I click on the screen when the result of the zoom is displayed. It's also taking ages to do more or less anything else.

[Pat Stanford]

I am also running Update 5 and Sonoma 14.5 and I am not having any issues at all.

 

I feel your pain, but I have not other suggestions to make.

 

I recommend you contact Technical Support directly and see if they can help you figure this out.

 

From some other posts it seems like something to do with external monitors, specifically 4K monitors.

 

[raouls]

Update from my side.

 

As suggested earlier in the thread, turning off Spaces, significantly helped with navigation around the file, however once I got to using tools, i.e. drawing the lag was noticeable. Ultimately if I work with a single screen setup everything works fine and is as responsive as you would hope. Unfortunatly this is how I will need to continue until this issue is resolved.

 

I did also take the matter up with support.

They have confirmed that there are still issues with Sonoma 14.5, most noticeable with M Series hardware using external / multi-monitor, with M series laptops most likely to encounter the problem. Apparently the issue effects a number of applications including; Adobe, Autodesk and Microsoft as well as Vectorworks.

They have recommended, if possible to revert to an earlier version of Sonoma (14.3 or earlier).

[Hamo]

I'm on MAC M1 Max 64gb OS Sonoma 14.5 using a Logitec MX Vertical.  Sometimes the scroll wheel doesn't want to respond at all.  Works fine in other apps.

 

Anyone else having this particular issue?

[Janvin Lowe]

On 5/27/2024 at 11:50 PM, DomC said:

hi @raouls
For me it works, when the option is ON. For you it works when this option is off. What i observed is the following:

1. I have the main Window on the external screen, second screen is internal display of mac book
2. Vectorworks is startet on the external screen
3. If The Vectorworks  border nearer than 3 cm on the screen border where the internal display is arranged i have epic lags for different actions. Also other Things seems to get slow (Finder)
4. If i drag the VW Window away from the border it is getting fast as expected
5. If i turn ON (Screens uses different spaces) it also works as expected and i can work with a miximized Vectorworks Window

So i am little puzzled. I i update my OS, it looks like, that i have to switch OFF the Option again.

hi @DomC

Wow - what a difference!  You were right!  I'm glad I found your response as that totally did the trick for me.

 

Was previously on Ventura Mac OS 13 and VW on my MBP was flying - dont' ask me why I decided to do the Sonoma upgrade.

 

Currently:

Running VW 2024 SP6 (build 765860)

Mac OS 14.6.1

M1 Macbook Pro 16"

Monitor setup:

   - macbook screen displays all working palettes

   - 32" ext monitor displays working viewports

   - 32" ext monitor displays other apps

 

It wasn't just VW lagging so I knew it wasn't a VW bug, although it could be a combination of the two.

 

As soon as I turned the separate spaces option "ON" and rebooted lags were gone - lags that I experienced weren't just in the drawing space, they occurred when inputting values such as length or distance values when certain dialogs prompted for them.

 

I'll have to look into this "separate spaces" option a little more to see how / if there's benefits to be had - one instant feature I see right away is now I've got the menu bar on each of my monitors which I'm absolutely fine with as I don't need to cursor down to my MBP's display to get to those menus now - although I can see others not so excited about that.

 

Thanks again @DomC !  Great find!

 

J

Edited August 19, 2024 by Janvin Lowe

[Ed Wachter]

On 6/17/2024 at 6:17 AM, Pat Stanford said:

I am also running Update 5 and Sonoma 14.5 and I am not having any issues at all.

 

I feel your pain, but I have not other suggestions to make.

 

I recommend you contact Technical Support directly and see if they can help you figure this out.

 

From some other posts it seems like something to do with external monitors, specifically 4K monitors.

 

I'm just now moving to Mac OS 14 (Sonoma). I was completely unable to work in any version of VW until I noticed Pat's comment about 4K monitors. Everything seems to work normally when I unplug my 4K external monitor. Do I have to get a new monitor now?

 

Ed

[Ed Wachter]

Changing the monitor scaling /resolution setting (within the Mac OS System Setting) seems to have resolved the problem. However, I changed the setting back and the problem has not returned. Bizarre! The System Settings has a warning: "Using a scaled resolution may affect performance". But I can't tell which is the default setting and which ones would be considered "scaled".

 

I'll see if everything still works tomorrow morning.

 

Ed

[rDesign]

@Ed Wachter - I remembered a similar problem being discussed in the recent thread below. Note that it is still happening in the current MacOS version Sequoia 15.3.1.

 

Sounds like not scaling and keeping the default 4k resolution might be the current fix.

 

 

Edited March 13 by rDesign

[zoomer]

10 hours ago, Ed Wachter said:

"Using a scaled resolution may affect performance"

 

No clue if your M1 would be still affected like some weaker Intel Macs, but yes it can.

Especially with 4k Monitors and usual uneven scaling needed.

As for a scaling from 4k to something like 3k, macOS will scale the image to double resolution (6k !) and back to 3K. Together with a Retina Macbook Display, that can be too much for some weaker devices.

[Ed Wachter]

With the build-in Retina display the System Settings show you which resolution / scaling is the default; presumably the others would be "scaled". But the System Settings do not show me if there is a default scaling for my external monitor that might be easier on the graphics processing. If anyone knows more about this, please let me know. Just in case it matters, my monitor is an 27-inch LG 4k model. I don't see any drivers that can be updated.

 

Thanks all!

Ed

[rDesign]

29 minutes ago, Ed Wachter said:

27-inch LG 4k model

 

According to the manual for this LG 27" 4k monitor (which may or not be your monitor), the standard / recommended resolution is 3840 x 2160 @ 60 Hz.

[zoomer]

On 3/13/2025 at 5:29 PM, rDesign said:

for this LG 27" 4k monitor  the standard / recommended resolution is 3840 x 2160 @ 60 Hz.

 

Which is the easiest to calculate resolution as it is the native (4k) resolution.

 

But in practice 4k is a very bad resolution vs a (just doubled) retina resolution for currently used standard display sizes.

(Around millennium I had expensive 20" LCD displays with 1600x1200 1:1 resolution, now mainstream is about 27"- 30+")

But for a 27" size at typical viewing distance, using 4k resolution, the icons and text size from the OS may likely be much too small to be legible if you do no more have the eyes like a child or teenager.
The usual resolution standard for 27" sized displays is 2560x1440.

 

This means in Windows or macOS you will need to go to Display Settings and choose a scaling.

An even scaling like 50% or 200% would be still wrong for the display size so you need a 2560x1440 on your 27" 4k monitor - which is an uneven scaling.

Therefore macOS will calculate, for desired scaling for native 4k to 2560x1440, by doubling to 5120x2880, to finally bring a max sharp and optimized image on to the physical 4k pixel raster.

(The part of a letter that fits on the pixel rid will be shown pure black while the par that exceeds the grid will result in a gray pixel)

 

So 4k Monitors, if not in about 40" size and native 1:1 resolution are just current mainstream industry display resolution technology but bad for viewing quality/UX.

But - 4k panels are cheap - and at the end still a bit better in viewing quality (!) than older 1:1 display, which did not need artificial scaling by OS, but where you can still see/recognize every Pixel (if you have still good eyes).

[E|FA]

I was very nervous switching from a 27" iMac retina display to a 4K external for an M2 MacBook Air.  However, I've been very happy with a 27" BenQ PD2725U set to 2560x1440.  Disclaimer: I never had them set up side by side and my eyes are 60 years old.

[Ed Wachter]

Thanks for the comments. I've been mostly offline for the last week as I struggled to recover from the disastrous "upgrade" from Monterey to Sonoma. I was completely unable to use any version of VW in Sonoma (with the external monitor). Apple Support says it's not possible to go backwards to a previous OS. Fortunately, our Mac consultant was willing to visit the office with a thumb drive that contained Monterey. So I am up and running again in Monterey again. VW2023, 24 & 25 are all working normally. 

@E|FA I assume you're on the latest OS. Our consultant advised that we upgrade only as far as Sonoma. We're using M1 chip Macs from December 2021. If I ever need a new monitor, I'll look for that BenQ model.

@zoomer thanks for explanation of scaling / resolution. I did not see the button for "default" scaling, so I don't think I tried that during my time in Sonoma. But looking at it now, I think that default is a deal breaker since it scales the image larger than I want.

 

I am happy to be getting back to my old job. It's way more fun than troubleshooting OS conflicts. We will stay on on Monterey until we need new computers.

 

Thanks,

Ed