wish - clip tool on slab-objects should also be able to modify the boundary

[matteoluigi]

during the design process of a building it happens a lot of times to modify objects. That of course includes also modifieng slabs.

Therefor the clip tool does really good work because you can clip or add an area to slabs as well. Unfortunately, everytime you use the clip tool on a slab, there will be added an object to the slab modifiers which can turn out in a little mess of many modifiers in that slab. Sometimes a diligent colleague helps you out of this mess, when he deletes all modifiers and changes the slab boundary corresponding to the changes. But, is that really necessary?

I mean, there should be the possibility inside the clip tool to modify the slab boundary and not add slab modifiers.

 

I am afraid, that there might be some technical reasons for that issue, but, you never know...

[StefanoT]

even more: improve slab and space tool consistency, where the space tool (and/or viewports) is how it should be in terms of modifiers (clip tool and boundaries)

Edited March 22 by StefanoT

[matteoluigi]

@StefanoT in my opinion the space tool works much bettern in that terms. There are no modifiers inside the space object, so there isn't any possibility of changing some modifiers instead of its boundaries...

[Matt Overton]

I've seen slabs so polluted by trimming modifiers the only choice was to throw them out and start again. 

Does seem like the system should be rethought you can never really modify the modifiers as most edit operations make them unknown tot he slab, just delete them and reapply them.

[matteoluigi]

37 minutes ago, Matt Overton said:

I've seen slabs so polluted by trimming modifiers the only choice was to throw them out and start again.

yes, and the trim-tool is a really useful tool. Unfortunately it turns out as totally useless for slab editing.

As a user you actually only have the choice of editing the boundary directly inside the slab object (maybe by copying and pasting geometry you have been drawing directly in 2D) or you can modify the slab using the reshape tool (which is a good tool as well but with another purpose)....

 

Still not happy...

[matteoluigi]

@marc wittwer @Viktor Frank @Marvin @Dimitri Sonnenberg what do you think? 

[Tom W.]

On 3/21/2024 at 4:18 PM, matteoluigi said:

there should be the possibility inside the clip tool to modify the slab boundary and not add slab modifiers.

 

So basically, are we saying that if in the 'Clip Shape from Slab' + 'Add Shape to Slab' dialogs we select 'Apply shape to entire slab' then the modification should occur without creating a Modifier, but if we select 'Apply shape to selected components of slab' a Modifier should still be created, since in these instances we need to retain a way of going back + editing/removing the modification? I think this would be a good enhancement because like you say, at the moment we are forced to restrict editing the shape of a Slab to the Reshape Tool or entering the edit mode for the Boundary + being able to use Clip on the Slab directly (without creating a Modifier) would speed things up.

 

In all other circumstances however I think Modifiers are necessary + useful because they give you a means of editing or removing edits you've made to a Slab when you have added or subtracted 3D geometry to components. What I find annoying though is that when you have a Slab there is nothing to indicate whether it contains modifiers or not unless you right-click on it, select 'Edit Modifiers' to enter an edit mode, then perhaps adjust the Other Objects settings in order to see the Modifiers in context, then exit again, which all adds up to quite a lot of clicks. Often these modifications are quite subtle + not immediately obvious in the model (e.g. they might only show up in section VPs) + so it's very easy to edit the Slab + neglect to edit the modifiers as well. Or very easy to forget that you applied a Modifier in the first place. What might be helpful would be a 'Show Modifiers' check-box in the OIP which you could toggle on + off to highlight a Slab's Modifiers in the model + allow you to quickly see what Modifiers it has + where they are. In addition, it might be useful to have a 'Number of Modifiers' parameter which would allow you to see at a glance how many Modifiers it has, if any at all e.g. 'Number of Modifiers: 0', 'Number of Modifiers: 3', etc. 

[matteoluigi]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:52 AM, Tom W. said:

So basically, are we saying that if in the 'Clip Shape from Slab' + 'Add Shape to Slab' dialogs we select 'Apply shape to entire slab' then the modification should occur without creating a Modifier, but if we select 'Apply shape to selected components of slab'

yes, that sounds good. and maybe I can select as well, that I always modify the whole slab, when I use the clip tool and I can chose to modify componets when I add or subtract some 2D or 3D geometry.

On 3/23/2024 at 10:52 AM, Tom W. said:

In all other circumstances however I think Modifiers are necessary + useful

sure, but not always. A slab full of modifiers, just because the whole slab has been modified x times is a mess.

 

On 3/23/2024 at 10:52 AM, Tom W. said:

What I find annoying though is that when you have a Slab there is nothing to indicate whether it contains modifiers

it's like in sheetlayer viewports and annotations somehow, unless you don't look inside you won't know...

 

Maybe there should be an option to merge all modifiers which modify the whole slab into the slab boundary and delete them from the modifiers as well.

I guess many people working with slabs don't know what they create when they modify a slab very often adding unwanted modifiers, somehow the slab tool itself makes you do that.

[Tom W.]

31 minutes ago, matteoluigi said:

Maybe there should be an option to merge all modifiers which modify the whole slab into the slab boundary and delete them from the modifiers as well

But what if the modifier is a symbol you’ve added to the Slab? 

 

And even if the modifier was a simple 3D solid, once you’ve merged it with the Slab how would that geometry know how to behave if you then reshaped the boundary…? If you had no access to the modifiers your only option would be to delete the Slab + start again…

[matteoluigi]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

But what if the modifier is a symbol you’ve added to the Slab? 

than it can't be "merged" of course. IMO "merging" would only make sense with 2D geometry which really affects the geometry of the WHOLE slab which would really meen that it affects the whole slab boundary

 

Now I don't have to redraw the whole slab, I just need to "cut" (ctrl/cmd+x) all wanted modifiers and paste them in place inside the slab boundary and add their surface to the slab boundarie's geometry.

Edited March 25 by matteoluigi

[Tom W.]

12 minutes ago, matteoluigi said:

than it can't be "merged" of course. IMO "merging" would only make sense with 2D geometry which really affects the geometry of the WHOLE slab which would really meen that it affects the whole slab boundary

 

For me I think the most straightforward thing would be if no Modifier was created at all when we select 'Apply shape to entire slab' in the 'Clip Shape from Slab' + 'Add Shape to Slab' dialogs. I'd be quite happy for this to happen by default rather than there be a 'Merge' option. But I totally agree with you that we shouldn't have to enter the Boundary edit mode or add tons of vertices using the Reshape Tool when we want to edit the 2D shape of a Slab. Using Clip directly on the Slab would be much more efficient. You have my vote!

[matteoluigi]

15 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Using Clip directly on the Slab would be much more efficient.

that exactly is the main part of my wish!