Neatest way of doing electrical layouts - symbolic and literal representation of fixtures.

[Kevin K]

To take the Elec / Mech schedule a bit further, I have found it convenient to add a formula in the worksheet which will count how many of each item you have. The electrician on the job loves this, so he /she doesnt have to take the time to count all the items from the drawings, etc 🙂

 

[E|FA]

5 minutes ago, Kevin K said:

I have found it convenient to add a formula in the worksheet which will count how many of each item you have. The electrician on the job loves this, so he /she doesnt have to take the time to count all the items from the drawings

From a professional practice standpoint, I was taught NOT to count items for the contractors.  If the count is wrong, the architect could be financially liable for the error.  Depending on the item and the schedule implications it could be $$$.  If you do choose to include the information, a disclaimer notice saying the information is for "order of magnitude" only and should not be used for bidding would be worth adding.

Edited March 29, 2024 by E|FA

[Kevin K]

@E|FA I believe I was saying that the Electrician sub-contractor could create his BID from that data, that's all 🙂

Plus...I am not a real architect 🙂

 

[E|FA]

Yeah, that's the problem.  If they create their bid from the data and the data is wrong, you could be on the hook.  A simple example: your list says 10 fixtures, but the drawings show 11 fixtures.  Their bid is for 10, so who pays for the 11th fixture?  It gets more complicated when the error results in construction delays (e.g. long lead time to get the missing item because the sub ordered based on your count) that can domino to affect other trades and dramatically affect costs.  Simple solution: let the contractor be responsible for their work and count.

[E|FA]

31 minutes ago, Kevin K said:

Plus...I am not a real architect 🙂

 

That doesn't mean you can't be sued like a real architect.  TBH, I've never been sued, but I have paid for my mistakes.  The old saying that the architect is always right, the contractor is always wrong, and the client always pays (reverse architect and contractor as desired) is not always true in my world.

[Kevin K]

This is precisely why I stopped being a Contractor...I got so friggin tired of paying for the Sub's mistakes that I had to pay for. To me, Contracting became an absolutely thankless job.  I am MUCH happier just being a residential designer, full stop.

[Itchy]

On 3/15/2024 at 1:14 AM, Tom W. said:

I use hybrid symbols for my electrical devices.

 

They look like this in 3D:

 

Like this in hidden line section VPs:

 

And like this in Top/Plan:

 

The polylines representing the switching for the lighting is drawn separately on its on Design Layer (I prefer to do it on a Design Layer rather than in VP annotations because then I can show it in multiple VPs if I need to).

 

The symbols actually have two 2D components separated by class: the red schematic representation shown above plus a 'realistic' representation which I display in standard non-schematic plans. Here you can see the LED downlighters are represented by a dashed circle + there is a 3-gang light switch on the south side of the nib wall:

 

The 3D component of the symbols are set to insert at the correct height off the floor so the symbols can be inserted in Top/Plan very quickly + easily. The symbols incorporate 2D loci so I can insert them the correct distance from each other side by side on the wall.

 

Lastly I have a Graphic Legend set up as a key:

 

Works well for me.

On 3/15/2024 at 1:14 AM, Tom W. said:

 

 

 

@Tom W. How do you deal with existing vs new on renovations, separate symbols for each? I assume all these are custom and not part of the electrical services tool.

 

[Tom W.]

5 hours ago, Itchy said:

 

 

@Tom W. How do you deal with existing vs new on renovations, separate symbols for each? I assume all these are custom and not part of the electrical services tool.

 

 

Yes these are my own symbols. Generally, most times, even in refurb projects, the wiring is being completely replaced so all the electrical items are in a 'Proposed' class. But on the occasions I am adding/removing devices on existing circuits I use the same symbols throughout but put the existing symbols in an 'Existing' class, removed symbols in a 'Demolished' class + new symbols in a 'Proposed' class. That allows me to easily control visibility. In addition I have a data mapping set up in the Data Manager that automatically adds a 'Construction Status' Record Format to all objects in all my different 'Existing'/'Demolished'/'Proposed' classes + sets the status ('Existing', 'Demolished' or 'Proposed') based on that class. The presence of the Record allows me to use Data Viz to easily change the appearance of the symbols in VPs based on whether they are staying or going or are new.

 

In the symbol options you can specify the insertion class so by default it's 'Proposed' but on a project like this I would import all of the symbols into the working file first (from my Favorites) + change the insertion class throughout to 'Existing' + draw up the existing conditions. Then I would pick out the to-be-removed devices individually (in the drawing) + change their class to 'Demolished' in the OIP. Then make sure that new devices I put in 'Proposed', either by editing the insertion options beforehand or remembering to do it in the OIP after insertion. In this way I keep the class-changing to a minimum.

[digitalcarbon]

On 3/14/2024 at 9:30 AM, Tom W. said:

It requires me to create two versions of the same symbol

this is where VW needs to borrow from the mechanical cad world.   mechanical cad (Onshape, solid works etc) have something called configs.  you can set up a config with dims that are editable....so in this case you would place the 2d plan symbol on the wall then type in a dim for an offset off the wall...and it would move out the 2d part but not the 3d part.  no need for multiple symbols of the same thing.

 

Stellar work by the way...looks like everyone is having the same problem.  

Edited December 5, 2024 by digitalcarbon

[digitalcarbon]

On 3/14/2024 at 10:46 AM, line-weight said:

if you had two instances of the same symbol and you wanted one shown as the plastic variant and one as the stainless one,

again,  this is what configurations are all about.  You can have one model but different materials etc

 

So VW should look into configs for the symbol.

[line-weight]

1 hour ago, digitalcarbon said:

again,  this is what configurations are all about.  You can have one model but different materials etc

 

So VW should look into configs for the symbol.

 

Yes - something like this has been asked for on other threads - something that allows the user to build custom parametric PIOs when none of the VW built in ones are suitable for the job.