Incompatible Plug-ins Report: MaxonDocument Builder // MaxonRenderDevice

[High_Viz]

I noticed that since I've installed Vectorworks 2024 on a fresh install of windows I get the following error when Vectorworks boot up... i need to close this error message before Vectroworks will open up... its annoying, I have no idea what it is [no reference to Maxon found in the KB when I looked...], or if its linked to my screen going black [I've asked for help with the other issue with in another post on the Vectorworks forum]. All help gratefully received!! Thank you!!

 

[rDesign]

Maxon is the company that makes CineRender and Redshift, which are the two primary rendering engines in Vw.

Your screenshot doesn’t show the names of the offending plug-ins. If you grab / drag the divider to the right of the Path so that the plug-in names are shown, what does it say?

[High_Viz]

Hi @rDesign thank you for your reply - I have attached another screen grab after dragging the dividers that were obscuring the names of the plug ins...

 

Seems to be 2 plug ins causing the error message...

• MaxonDocumentBuilder.vlb
• MaxonRenderDevice.vlb

[rDesign]

I don't have any insight into those two plugins @JuanP - any thoughts? 

 

You probably will need to contact Tech Support, but first you could try repairing the installation using the Vectorworks 2024 Updater application.

Click 'Advanced Options' at the upper right corner and then 'Repair'.

[JuanP]

@High_Viz , as @rDesign suggested, please repair the installation, and if the problem persists, please let me know. In the meantime, I'm asking R+D about these two plug-ins. Thanks

[High_Viz]

Thank you @rDesign and @JuanP for your ideas and help

 

I spoke to Vectorworks technical support today - they suggested deleting the two offending plug ins, and then running repair, then trying to launch VWX...

 

I did as per the instructions but still get the same error even after the repair ... so you both get top points for a good idea 😃 shame its not worked [yet]!!

 

The next piece of advice was to uninstall and reinstall a fresh version... which I am doing now...

Edited February 5 by High_Viz

[High_Viz]

and.... fresh install.... and its reporting the same plug in errors... hmmm

[Pat Stanford]

Re-download the installer?

[High_Viz]

Hi @Pat Stanford yes i did that, all 5GB of it!! 😃 Still have the same errors with plug ins...

 

I am wondering is my graphics card [or processors] too old to be able to load the extensions? like it cant recognise them?

 

I'm clutching at straws really here... help!!

[Pat Stanford]

I think the answer on your hardware will have to come from VW or Maxon.

[High_Viz]

I've asked this on the HP forum just today @Pat Stanford, not sure of how to contact Maxon?

 

Feedback on the HP forum was that the graphics card performance of the Nvidia Quadro K4200 is a bit 'underwhelming' when compared to current graphic card performance...

 

My motherboard graohics card slot is a PCIe x16 v2.0, so if anyone on here or on HP forums might know if in theory it might be possible to fit a PCIe x16 v4.0 in that slot - if it is possible to upgrade the graphic card performance that might be the answer

 

[Dave Donley]

The K4200 began in 2014, also Renderworks requires AVX support on the processor and maybe this one doesn't have AVX support?  Also it requires 64-bit OS.

 

I haven't heard of these plugins not loading before like this.  It means there is something missing from the system that these plugins rely on.  We have had more issues when Cineware is trying to load or Redshift is being used, related to system requirements.  I haven't heard of these plugins not loading before, until now.

 

Maxon's requirements for Cineware 2023 (which is what Vectorworks 2024 uses) are here.  Maybe the Windows 10 build version needs to be newer than what is on your computer.

https://www.maxon.net/en/requirements/cinema-4d-2023-requirements

 

[Ross Harris]

Your Xeons came out in Q1, 2009..  so pretty old tech. Maxon recommend a Kaby Lake minimum - that's a 2016 release

Last ditch options are downloading the latest NVIDIA driver and running windows update to get most current win 10 version (updates directx at the same time) that will run on the pc. Failing that it's got to be compatibility issue with old hardware.

You'd probably best to start thinking about an upgrade for VW 2024 and newer - the good news is you won't need dual CPU or Quadro to make VW fly - a current i7 14700k or a Ryzen 9 7900X3D with a rtx4070ti super (our two office rigs have i7 13700k/rtx4070 and i9 13900k/rtx4080 respectively) will make your current rig look like a bicycle being overtaken by a Veyron on the Autobarn - for less than matching your current config with today's products (dual Xeons, quadros,etc) - unless you need this config for another use, that is. My home home rig is a Ryzen 9 3900x/rtx3080ti (CPU is from 2019) and is no slouch using VW - no maxon plugin errors on any of these machines or our laptops.

Edited February 7 by Ross Harris

[High_Viz]

Thank you both @Dave Donley and @Ross Harris very useful insight into hardware in my set up, I'm guessing that it's finally dawning on me that it might be a processor issue, not just a graphics card issue, that might be behind the performance issues here.

 

A response on the HP forum was to try a newer graphics card like an Nvidia RTX 4000, but that card alone is about £3-400, and I could buy a new (and very capable) machine for about three times that amount...

 

I guess i am not going regret the performance gains of buying a new contemporary machine (besides affording the cost), but it is quite possible (maybe very likely) I might regret spending a chunk of money on a new graphics card if the problem continues to persist!!

 

I guess now I have a bit more information on hardware I can see in what ways my machine is old, and I might be able to find a use for it as a general needs PC in the office, so it's not all lost. If I can afford a new machine then I realise that's what I should be doing, and as a second hardware investment I might upgrade the graphics card on the Z600 down the line with a decent second hand card, see what happens... 

 

Right... I'd better look for a new machine I think!!

[Ross Harris]

Go to a system builder for your new machine - the big box brands (dell. HP, etc) always scrimp on a system component somewhere to enhance their profit margin to the end users misfortune.. not to mention the insidious crapware they preload to 'assist'...

You don't need a workstation spec machine - a hot gaming rig will do the business. I usually upspec as much as I can with the CPU and memory - hard drives and new graphics cards are easy to add in or swap later on for a bit more longevity.

[High_Viz]

@Ross Harris @Dave Donley I've been hunting for a suitable new machine today, I'm very likely going to be adapting a decent gaming rig [good balance of performance and cost] - and have sorted a new graphics card as part of that new build - I will try the new card in the Z600 to see if it sorts any of the errors before installing into the new gaming rig - I've got nothing to lose but it might shed some light on whether the graphics card had anything to do with it ... but, none the less its a bit of a relief that a replacement machine is now in hand. Thanks for your help.

Edited February 7 by High_Viz

[High_Viz]

@Dave Donley I was curious on how my machine runs so I decided to run a few benchmarking applications on my old Z600, i researched a bit into Maxon, and Cinema 4D, and decided to run the Cinema 4D benchmarking software out of interest... Running Cinebench 2024 returns an error [as you suggested] that the CPU in my system does not offer AVX2 instruction support... so im assuming that refers to CPU and not GPU, so no matter what graphics cards are put in this machine, it is the CPU that doesn't actually support the Maxon Plug ins? is that right - feels that this is significant in understanding what's been going on here...

 

Either way thank you for your insight

 

On 2/6/2024 at 11:34 PM, Dave Donley said:

The K4200 began in 2014, also Renderworks requires AVX support on the processor and maybe this one doesn't have AVX support?  Also it requires 64-bit OS.

 

I haven't heard of these plugins not loading before like this.  It means there is something missing from the system that these plugins rely on.  We have had more issues when Cineware is trying to load or Redshift is being used, related to system requirements.  I haven't heard of these plugins not loading before, until now.

 

Maxon's requirements for Cineware 2023 (which is what Vectorworks 2024 uses) are here.  Maybe the Windows 10 build version needs to be newer than what is on your computer.

https://www.maxon.net/en/requirements/cinema-4d-2023-requirements

 

 

[High_Viz]

and finally.... I checked the processor capability using the Intel Processor Identification Utility, for legacy processors - under the section on CPU technologies it appears that AVX [Intel Advanced Vector Extensions] are not supported on the CPU, so yes it seems that this old Z600 isnt ever going to be happy running a copy of Vectorworks 2024. Im going to keep the machine operational for some older perpetual software licenses [like older versions of Vectorworks Architects, Sketchup and VRAY etc] but i'm going to focus on the new machine for my current licenses in better workflows moving forwards.

 

The lesson learned is that even though the machine 'on paper' reports sufficient performance to run the Vectorworks application comfortably, the Vectoworks application required a newer CPU processor technology [AVX] than is available in the system CPU chipset - so it might be worth commenting in future somewhere in the minimum specifications for running Vectorworks what the minimum standards of the actual processor might be...? just a thought for those of us with Jurassic Rigs...?

 

Many thanks all for your help - got there in the end.

 

Id never even heard of AVX before this week - every day is a school day 🙂

 

Edited February 8 by High_Viz

[Ross Harris]

2 hours ago, High_Viz said:

every day is a school day

100% agree on that! Great detective work on the AVX issue too.

Edited February 8 by Ross Harris

[Dave Donley]

@High_Viz Thanks for the details and sorry for the lack of info from me on this.  The only AVX example I had before was when users would bypass Apple's installers to install macOS on unsupported Macs that were missing AVX.  I will massage this part of the system requirements moving forward to mention your example as well:

 

"Renderworks requires AVX support on AMD and Intel CPUs. Renderworks will not work on older Intel Macs that are missing AVX support, even if macOS 11 is installed on them by bypassing official Apple installers."

[High_Viz]

As a round up, newer machine runs Vectorworks 2024 brilliantly. I set up an old license of architect 2016 on my old machine and that older machine is happy running an old license, not sure what I will use that for yet besides a sandbox machine, but it’s an additional tool at my disposal I guess.

 

thanks again for all your help and insight and patience… collaboration saved the day