Photogrammetry & Point clouds

[rudybeuc@gmail.com]

Trying out photogrammetry today.

 

Do I have to use Nomad to get a snapable point cloud? Do I have to have Lidar to do this?

 

Thanks,

Rudy Beuc

 

 

[zoomer]

AFAIK for Point Cloud and Room Plan Mode you need Lidar.

(iPhone Pro, iPad Pro)

But Photogrammetry should work with standard iPhone too (?)

 

Looks like the Point Cloud Points in VW are snappable.

(Somehow by PTS export to Bricscad, I can't snap to/access the points,

other to other PTS files !?)

Or you can create a DTM from the PC.

(You better reduce the data or create a few Stakes manually from the PC)

 

Photogrammetry has initially no scale.

 

There are a few good Videos on Nomad and working with Scans on VW University.

[inikolova]

Hi @rudybeuc@gmail.com,

 

Yes, to create a point cloud with Nomad, you need a device with a LiDAR sensor.

 

Photogrammetry works with any pictures, even those taken with a drone. Nomad has a built-in app for taking the photos as well. If the photos are taken with iOS Nomad, additional metadata is captured that aids the reconstruction process and helps creating a model in the correct scale and orientation.

Here is a nice course about Photogrammetry and Point clouds from Vectorworks University: 

https://university.vectorworks.net/course/view.php?id=2703

Please let me know if I can help with anything else.

 

Best regards,

Iskra Nikolova

[zoomer]

10 minutes ago, inikolova said:

https://university.vectorworks.net/course/view.php?id=2703

Please let me know if I can help with anything else.

 

Somehow that special Video does not play in Safari on my M1 Mini.

(But I have watched  it 2 days ago in Firefox)

 

 

Edited January 4 by zoomer

[inikolova]

@zoomer,

A colleague tells me that they are seeing some security and privacy issues not just with Vectorworks University, but with other areas as well, after upgrading to Sonoma. If you are using Private browsing in Safari, this error appears. There is no known solution to this issue as of now. 

[zoomer]

2 minutes ago, inikolova said:

If you are using Private browsing in Safari, this error appears.

 

I do not actively (know how to) use Safari private browsing or use different Sonoma profiles.

I thought about that or Firewall Settings or Add Blockers but it works flawlessly in Firefox and

even with Safari, with any other Webinars I tried so far on VW University !?

 

Maybe I should restart my M1 Mini from time to time, which I forget since I exited macOS

Public Betas .....

[inikolova]

Hmm, weird that it works with other webinars, but not this one. Let us know if you manage to find a fix. I informed the Vectorworks University team about your issue as well.

[rudybeuc@gmail.com]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:46 PM, inikolova said:

Hi @rudybeuc@gmail.com,

 

Yes, to create a point cloud with Nomad, you need a device with a LiDAR sensor.

 

Photogrammetry works with any pictures, even those taken with a drone. Nomad has a built-in app for taking the photos as well. If the photos are taken with iOS Nomad, additional metadata is captured that aids the reconstruction process and helps creating a model in the correct scale and orientation.

Here is a nice course about Photogrammetry and Point clouds from Vectorworks University: 

https://university.vectorworks.net/course/view.php?id=2703

Please let me know if I can help with anything else.

 

Best regards,

Iskra Nikolova

 

So I've bought an IPAD and was up on a roof today scanning in all kinds of things. I did not have connectivity and the files were all saved on my I pad.

 

Back in the office with connectivity and having some difficulty uploading to the VW cloud.

 

How do I upload/sync everything to the VW cloud?

 

Thanks,

Rudy Beuc

Edited January 6 by rudybeuc@gmail.com

[inikolova]

@rudybeuc@gmail.com,

This issue has been reported number of times and we tried various fixes with no success apparently. 😏 We have a device share option for files that are available locally on the device, so you can Air drop them or share with other methods available on your device. I am sorry you ran into this issue. I will let our engineers know.

You can find the device share option on the three dots menu of the file.

[rudybeuc@gmail.com]

1 hour ago, inikolova said:

@rudybeuc@gmail.com,

This issue has been reported number of times and we tried various fixes with no success apparently. 😏 We have a device share option for files that are available locally on the device, so you can Air drop them or share with other methods available on your device. I am sorry you ran into this issue. I will let our engineers know.

You can find the device share option on the three dots menu of the file.

 

So, this is the only apple product I have. I do not have air drop. Where are these files on my Ipad? 

 

Please relate to your engineers that it would be nice if there was some visible feedback on what Nomad's doing. Is it syncing? Can it see the cloud?

 

Thanks,

Rudy Beuc

 

 

 

[zoomer]

6 hours ago, inikolova said:

We have a device share option for files that are available locally on the device, so you can Air drop them or share with other methods available on your device.

 

That is interesting.

 

For me the cloud usage is hindering.

I did not find Nomad under Apps to allow or disallow using mobile data.

If Nomad syncs only over WIFI or USB-C cable it is ok, if it would

stress my mobile data rate it would be negative.

 

5 hours ago, rudybeuc@gmail.com said:

I do not have air drop.

 

I do not use it either, too complicated for me.

 

The other thing with cloud is,

I scan a point cloud, end and save, I have to wait until Nomad send it to cloud.

I wait until it synchs to the M1 Mini.

Then I start creating Folders in VW cloud on my M1, start relocating and renaming

things and for each action I have to wait again and produce necessary traffic.

If I got that right, even renaming causes the whole file to be uploaded and synched

over all devices again.

I "renamed" the VW samples folder according my standards by just making it all

upper case. Now in VW Cloud App I have 2 VW Samples Folders ....

[zoomer]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:32 PM, zoomer said:

(Somehow by PTS export to Bricscad, I can't snap to/access the points,

other to other PTS files !?)

 

 

That works now.

Was a user error/misunderstanding/.....

I can snap to VW point cloud PTS points now.

 

So I theoretically can also use Bricscad'S AI planar Face detection.

In practice it is a bit more difficult and works by increasing error tolerances

and expectable coarse results.

Support said : The issue is due to the low resolution of the scan as well as high noise.

Can't be, I have a current iPhone Pro 🙂

 

OK, Apple Lidar scan Point Clouds look indeed a bit different in quality than usual

Leica Station Point Cloud scanned by a surveyor.

[zoomer]

So I come to the question of what is the best way of Lidar scanning ?

 

For my first Point Cloud scan attempt I heavily moved around with the iPhone and

behind and under all things to avoid "data shadows".

It looks like the disadvantage is that this way, iPhones location/position awareness

may suffer and you end up redundantly scanning some important Faces like from

Walls again and again.

And for me it looks each time Lidar adds another layer of points over these Faces.

And is it is not super accurate, these Layers do not happen on the same plane.

If I watch my cropped cloud in a top view, I can see that for some Walls I have

five or more planes of point layers.

 

Therefore I did another test, trying to "mimic a Leica Station" or gimbal.

Means I tried to not move around (impossible), only rotate the iPhone and scanning

only radial. And I tried to avoid scanning things again.

The result looks a bit more accurate and file size is much smaller but I have

relatively few points. Which I would think is a good thing.

 

But interestingly, planar face detection in Bricscad was even harder and planes

less accurate oriented in space.

 

Are there any other experiences and best practices ?

[zoomer]

BTW,

 

is there a way to force Nomad to omit saving the redundant Point Cloud

without the "VW" suffix in the name ?

(the rotated one with Y axis up)

I don't need/want that.

[rudybeuc@gmail.com]

Got all my files sync'd, finally.

 

Had to go full manual and brute force it with the web interface, my desktop, and my ipad open to check each file individually. Took a few hours.

 

Tried pushing all the share buttons before that, but that went nowhere.

 

Please get this fixed. 

 

Thanks,

Rudy Beuc

[Elite Exhibits]

@zoomer have you ever had useable results with Photo to File in the VW Cloud ?

 

Recently ran three tests and was very disappointed

Want to have the process simple / low tech.

Photographed an object

Used a regular iPhone

Photos taken indoors

1st run failed (insufficient overlap)

2nd (More overlapping photos this time) resulted in a file that was incomplete

3rd (Better / New photos / More photos / even more overlap) (background stripped away on the iPhone) this also resulted in a file that was incomplete -

     see attached with Results: File imported is on the Left and One example photo is on the right

 

 

The traditional manual mode ,to create 3D geometry from photos, is combination of photographs, details and manipulation. First with the iPhone  (PHOTOs App) - some work in GraphicConverter (or PHOTOSHOP) as needed  & then VW - Simple / Easy / Predictable (a 2D PDF is also a good asset)

 

 

¿ Anyone succeed at this ? - Would love to see some real world examples of objects (ie: Not landscape or buildings) that used the VW Cloud Photos to 3D File

 

 

Peter

 

OBJ Import Before and After_1.pdf

[Jeff Prince]

15 minutes ago, Elite Exhibits said:

Anyone succeed at this ? - Would love to see some real world examples of objects (ie: Not landscape or buildings) that used the VW Cloud Photos to 3D File

you want Scaniverse for this task, it is superior to Nomad for capture and edit of objects.  I would like Nomad to be successful, it just isn’t there yet.

[zoomer]

2 hours ago, Elite Exhibits said:

@zoomer have you ever had useable results with Photo to File in the VW Cloud ?

 

 

I haven't tried it so far.

 

[Tom W.]

3 hours ago, Elite Exhibits said:

@zoomer have you ever had useable results with Photo to File in the VW Cloud ?

 

Recently ran three tests and was very disappointed

Want to have the process simple / low tech.

Photographed an object

Used a regular iPhone

Photos taken indoors

1st run failed (insufficient overlap)

2nd (More overlapping photos this time) resulted in a file that was incomplete

3rd (Better / New photos / More photos / even more overlap) (background stripped away on the iPhone) this also resulted in a file that was incomplete -

     see attached with Results: File imported is on the Left and One example photo is on the right

 

 

The traditional manual mode ,to create 3D geometry from photos, is combination of photographs, details and manipulation. First with the iPhone  (PHOTOs App) - some work in GraphicConverter (or PHOTOSHOP) as needed  & then VW - Simple / Easy / Predictable (a 2D PDF is also a good asset)

 

 

¿ Anyone succeed at this ? - Would love to see some real world examples of objects (ie: Not landscape or buildings) that used the VW Cloud Photos to 3D File

 

 

Peter

 

OBJ Import Before and After_1.pdf 147.7 kB · 1 download

 

I've used Nomad Photos to 3D Model a couple of times + found it ok:

 

 

I'm pretty sure when I tried scanning the same chair using Scaniverse the results were unusable: it just couldn't 'see' the object properly.

 

I've used Scaniverse for scanning buildings/interiors + that was fine but mostly I want a point cloud not a mesh + found Nomad gives me a (marginally) better scan than Scaniverse for that.