Mac Studio M2 Ultra

[Sky]

I bought a MacBook Pro M1 Max (32-core GPU) which is used both in the office and on the move, with the eventual goal of getting a faster office computer as the M processors progressed. 

The Mac Studio M2 Ultra was just released with a 60-core or 72-core GPU.

 

Will VW be able to take advantage of these extra GPU cores?

Will I see a significant reduction in rendering times?

[Mark Aceto]

As a M1 Ultra user for the past year, you’ll definitely see faster RW times with more than double the CPU cores.

 

You’ll also notice—or rather, won’t notice—any slow downs with Shaded mode. For context, I have 3D conversion set to High, and always run Shaded mode set to High, regardless of how complex / expensive the model is. I've also disabled all graphics caching which cuts my file sizes in half (and there's no noticeable performance hit; if anything it runs faster and smoother without caching). I imagine M2 Ultra has only refined that.

 

You won’t peg 128gb shared memory with VW but I would advise against 64gb since it can’t be upgraded. 192gb is overkill for anyone that doesn’t have some outlier use case who knows they need that much. Actually, Unreal Engine / Editor is now a Universal app, and is capable of using all 192gb (same with Twinmotion) depending on your settings (quality, FPS), so if that's a part of your workflow, it's something to consider. TM isn't Universal yet, so it still runs on Rosetta 2.

 

Furthermore, VW is “skating to where the puck will be”, so these performance gains will only get better with time.

 

That said, I may replace this Studio with a M2 MBP because I miss the portability when working onsite. They’re both excellent machines.

 

BTW that 60-core GPU option looks like the better value. I'm not sure if anyone would notice a performance improvement by spending an extra $1,000 on 16 GPU cores. It's the VRAM that matters, and that's where the 128gb comes into play. Here's my 64-core system for comparison (the maxed out config at the time; I certainly would not miss 4 GPU cores):

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

You can compare all 3 machines' spec's here:

 

https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/?modelList=MacBook-Pro-16-2021,Mac-studio-2022,Mac-studio-2023

[Mark Aceto]

For even more context, you really don't have to worry about FOMO:

• The M2 MBP was released 5 months ago
• The M2 Studio and the M2 Mac Pro were released on the same day (today)
• The M2 Studio CPU, GPU, memory, storage are spec for spec on tier with the Mac Pro
  • The only advantages the Pro has are I/0, expandability (not for GPU's though), and improved thermals (maybe they'll give it more juice to "overclock" it)

When I got my M1 Studio over a year ago, there were rumors swirling about a 4-die double-M1 Ultra Mac Pro coming out a few months later (turns out it was the M2 Pro that was released today). This is about as close as you're gonna get to seeing the hand that Apple's holding. The poor little iMac is still on M1, so maybe it'll get bumped to M2 this summer in time for school? It's safe to say the M3 generational updates will start at the bottom of the lineup (Mini, Air) possibly this fall in time the holidays? Then the MBP's sometime next year, and then the Studio later that year? Who knows... Timmy likes to spread em out to juice the quarterly earnings calls (and not strain the supply chain for all chips at once).

 

All I know is that today is the first day the entire MX Mac lineup spec's have been known in the past 3 years (4 years since the last Mac Pro was released). It's a good time to buy a Mac (except for the Pro which was shamefully nerfed but at least now we know what we won't be missing out on).

[Sky]

Thanks you @Mark Aceto! Your insight has been really helpful! 

[Mark Aceto]

This is a great reference too:

 

https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#mac

 

It's nuts how many days (years) some Mac's go without an update (Mac Pro, iMac). Hopefully, the release frequency will stabilize now that the MX transition has completed... 

[Sky]

Quote

So if I'm hearing you correctly @Mark Aceto, Renderworks uses CPU. It would be worth $2000 to get the Ultra with double the CPU cores (from 12 to 24), but not worth an additional $1000 to get the extra 12 GPU cores. Is that a fair analysis?

 

[Mark Aceto]

20 minutes ago, Sky said:

So if I'm hearing you correctly @Mark Aceto, Renderworks uses CPU. It would be worth $2000 to get the Ultra with double the CPU cores (from 12 to 24)

 

Absolutely worth it if RW is a priority. RW uses the Cinerender engine (ported from Cinema 4D) which is a multicore CPU renderer. It will use every core you throw at it.

 

23 minutes ago, Sky said:

not worth an additional $1000 to get the extra 12 GPU cores

 

Let's put it this way: if I was looking for savings or backing into a budget, that's the choice I'd make. But if money is no object, go for it.

 

Another way of putting it is there's "falloff" (diminishing returns) beyond:

• M2 Ultra with 24‑core CPU, 60‑core GPU
• 128gb

That said, huge caveat, if you plan on using Unreal Engine, Twinmotion, or Redshift which are GPU-biased, you would probably benefit from the maxed out Ultra with 76 GPU cores, and you might benefit from more memory (keep in mind it's shared, so if Unreal is using half of that memory for the GPU, that only leaves half for the CPU; UE recommends 64gb, and TM recommends 128gb... plus whatever other apps you have open).

 

Storage is what it is.

 

Also, looking ahead to resale, always get Apple Care. It can even be extended beyond 3 years now. I typically sell my used Mac's in under a week on Craigslist (surprisingly less sketchy than eBay and others).

[Sky]

I haven't used Unreal Engine or Twinmotion and don't have any plans to. Even though Redshift is faster at rendering, I don't find the results to be as easy to control so I find myself using Hidden Line with Shading for quick renders and Renderworks for final presentations (including an example). I'm pretty sure I'm going to order the Apple Studio M2 Ultra with 60-core GPU and 128GB unified memory now. Thank you for all your help @Mark Aceto!

A-900-Perspectives.pdf

Edited June 9, 2023 by Sky

[Mark Aceto]

4 minutes ago, Sky said:

M2 Ultra with 60-core GPU and 128GB unified memory

 

*chef's kiss*

 

Btw you're gonna love using that machine with VW 2024 (that's all I can say for now).

[Mark Aceto]

If you do need to fly with it, I've been using a 1510 Peli but would recommend a 1535 Air (more options; future proof):

 

https://www.colorcase.com

 

There are also lots of lighter duty options on Amazon now (compared to a year ago) for quick commutes vs flying / TSA:

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=mac+studio+case&crid=2FUOT7PFVI887&sprefix=mac+studio+case

 

This power cable lives in the Peli, so I can leave the non-replaceable Apple cable plugged into my standing desk when I travel (almost as convenient as unplugging the one USB-C cable from a MacBook Pro):

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005E2XT0W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

[Mark Aceto]

Oh, 2 things that caught me off guard when I got mine:

• There's no mic at all (literally none; unless they've added one)
  • I use my webcam's mic or AirPods
• The speakers are terrible (especially compared to a 16" MBP)
  • I use external speakers, my monitor's built in speakers, headphones, or AirPods

[Sky]

Oh that's interesting. I didn't realize there were no microphones. 

I was considering getting a new monitor, because I'd like to VESA mount it to a wall to free up desk space. I should really consider getting a new one that has a camera and microphone built in.

I have HomePod minis and AirPods Pro as options for sound as well.

 

[_James]

On 6/9/2023 at 5:46 PM, Mark Aceto said:

Btw you're gonna love using that machine with VW 2024 (that's all I can say for now).

 

Can you say anymore about this now? It's 6 weeks later after all!

[Mark Aceto]

3 hours ago, _James said:

 

Can you say anymore about this now? It's 6 weeks later after all!

Loose lips sync chips.

 

(Sorry, NDA)

[_James]

I thought that would be the case. Good to see some positivity about a new release though!

[zoomer]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:46 PM, Mark Aceto said:

with VW 2024

 

What .....

 

You will say there will be a VW 2024 ?

Probably in around 8 weeks or so.

And it will support M2 Macs ....

Maybe even some new features .....

 

I start to get excited already 🙂

[Sky]

@Mark Aceto Thank you for all your advice. I bought an M2 Ultra Mac Studio and the rendering speeds are phenomenal. These 4 renderings went from 4 hours to 1 hour and 20 minutes. I still have a problem with doing multiple complex renderings at a time. It'll do the first one and the remaining ones go completely white when each is done. I need to start each one after the last one is completed. Any idea what the issue might be?

[Mark Aceto]

1 hour ago, Sky said:

@Mark Aceto Thank you for all your advice. I bought an M2 Ultra Mac Studio and the rendering speeds are phenomenal. These 4 renderings went from 4 hours to 1 hour and 20 minutes. I still have a problem with doing multiple complex renderings at a time. It'll do the first one and the remaining ones go completely white when each is done. I need to start each one after the last one is completed. Any idea what the issue might be?

Could you post screenshots of your settings for rendering style, background, lighting, etc? Also, what page size and DPI?

 

Also, there’s some great info here: if your scroll down to the rendering section: https://www.andybroomell.com/resources

 

Typically, there’s an expensive choice (like receive shadows) that’s the culprit.

 

Also when monitoring system resources, how does that look? Assuming all cores are pegged for RW. What about memory, fans, etc?

[Mark Aceto]

On 7/21/2023 at 2:46 AM, _James said:

Can you say anymore about this now? It's 6 weeks later after all!

Continued improvements to Shaded rendering. Be sure to check out Shaded mode settings.

[_James]

Has rendering performance increased/ is that 24core CPU & 60core GPU more effective with 2024 than 2023?

[willofmaine]

@Sky l too would be interested in “Could you post screenshots of your settings for rendering style, background, lighting, etc? Also, what page size and DPI?”  I feel like those renderings would take only a few minutes each on my iMac Pro…

[Sky]

@Mark Aceto and @willofmaine

I think this is all the information. I included a screen shot of the model so you could see the lighting I'm using. Any advice to make my renders better or less time consuming would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Mark Aceto]

I think the main thing is to uncheck Denoising. Also, if it's acceptable, reduce the number of bounces.

 

@Dave Donley is the man, and can really help you dial in Redshift.

 

BTW to answer the other questions above, in my recent rendering (last week), Redshift looked indiscernible from custom RW and the render times were comparable, so I would say that's an improvement in 2024. Super anecdotal but that's been my experience so far.

 

Not for nothing but I wish Apple would enable Game Mode for non-games (not that hardware accelerated ray tracing exists in M1 or M2 but still). Maybe someone can hack that?

[zoomer]

I think the settings look quite reasonable.