Site Model and Grade Limits -- Grade limit / Define by contours keeps crashing

[twk]

Has anyone successfully used 'define by contours' for the new grade limits modifier?

I have tried in fresh files and old files and vectorworks keeps crashing.

Attached example

 

SiteModelGradingTest.vwx

[twk]

Can I ask for your confirmation if this has been working for you @jeff prince, @Pat Stanford, @Katarina Ollikainen?

 

Please and thank you

[Jeff Prince]

I avoid contours like the plague and build my sites from point data, so I have not tried this new feature yet.  Contours are so heavy.

[Pat Stanford]

I have not tried anything with site grading.  Sorry.

[Phillip Tripp]

I too have avoided the built in contour edit methods.  I use the grade tool, pads, grade limits because you visually see a direct relationship between the objects representing your intentions and the results in the site model updates.  If a civil engineer shares contour lines from their scope of work, we will add those to our file and convert to contours to assign a z elevation which also works fine.  The trick to any of these is adding a grade limits line so the grading instructions are not carried out across the entire model in a strange way.  Using these ways also lets you have multiple versions of grading concepts on different design layers in the same model and then you can pick can and choose which design layers the site model listens to.

[Katarina Ollikainen]

Yes, I've worked with it quite a lot and I haven't had any issues with it.  It's good for situations between other modifiers where you want to be able to fine-tune contours. Below is a simple example where I have adjusted the contours between the two pads - instead of having them perpendicular to the pad edges, I've added a slight bow to get a more rounded, softer form.

Of course, there are many other ways to achieve this, but this is a good way for those awkward areas around other modifiers.

If you have a file crashing, can you either post it here or send it to me directly so we can see what's happening. It should definitely not do that.

[twk]

Thanks, file in first post.

[Jeff Prince]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:43 PM, twk said:

Has anyone successfully used 'define by contours' for the new grade limits modifier?

I have tried in fresh files and old files and vectorworks keeps crashing.

Attached example

 

SiteModelGradingTest.vwx 2.58 MB · 6 downloads

 

Ah, I misunderstood what you were talking about and just tried that on your file.

I'm actually excited by this feature as I often want to adjust the placement of contours.

 

I was able to edit the contours with this new workflow using your example file without issue.

 

I increased the size of your grade limit and straightened up some contours

 

Switched your model to proposed, turned off smoothed contours and updated the site model.

 

 

No problemo.

[twk]

Much appreciated. I think there must be something up with my install. I shall try a fresh reinstall 

[Katarina Ollikainen]

Please do, and if you still have issues with it, let me know and we'll file a bug on it.

[twk]

Reporting back that a fresh re-install of VW23 seems to have fixed it.

Thanks all for testing

[twk]

Reporting back again, that the culprit is my workspace. If I use my custom workspace, it crashes, if I use one of the stock vw workspaces its fine.
Off to the bug reporting department.....

[Pat Stanford]

How may versions have you brought your workspace forward?  There are often changes to tools/commands between versions that have the same name, but different "IDs" under the hood. So you can have a tool installed that you think is calling the 2023 tool when the workspace is actually calling is still 2022 (or earlier).

 

Unfortunately, the best advice IMNSHO is to rebuild your workspace with each major version upgrade.

[twk]

Good point @Pat Stanford. My workspace is probably converted from 2021 if I can recall correctly.

 

It's strange though, editing the contours and updating the site model works fine if I'm on the Architect workspace, as soon as I change the workspace to my converted one, and then try to edit/update the contours through the grade limit, it crashes. And this is all within the same session.

 

I would've thought the tools or the operations that run in the background are not dependent on anything stored in the workspace.

But all good, will re-do a fresh workspace, it is about time.

Edited June 1, 2023 by twk

[Ross Harris]

I've had a similar experience. An upgraded workspace was copied to our brand new training PCs and the all acted possessed. I ditched the workspaces and did a purge of other files and templates the other trainer brought for that interiorcad session and they worked beautifully on the next sessions.. 

From that experience I recreate my template and workspace every new version..

Edited June 2, 2023 by Ross Harris

[twk]

Well well well.. just spent the last 3 hours diagnosing what was happening and causing the crash.

Turns out it wasn't:

- a converted workspace

- custom short cut keys for my workspace

- or any custom plugins I had

 

The Trial and Errors

Before I unveil the culprit and the solution, share in my grief that which I painstakingly tried. (Side note, there were other anomalies found that were causing other crashes) :

1. Converted multiple stock workspaces (ANZ, ANZ-BIM)

2. Removed all shortcut keys

3. Editing Tools and Menu Items to add our set of custom office shortcut keys

4. Re-organised icon positioning and stacking within palettes to match our previous office workspace setouts.

 

Test actions to trigger the crash

1. Editing or just entering the contours space, for the -> Grade Limit Site Modifier's 'Define by Contours'

2. Upon exiting, Vectorworks crashes

The culprit(s):

- Stacking Tools used in this mode (Reshape, Split, Trim, Clip, Pan, Zoom, and others).

1. If these tools are stacked in my workspace it will cause the crash. They must be at the top most level in the tool palette

2. When you're in this contour edit mode of the Grade Limits site modifier, you can see that these tools are not stacked beneath anything

 

 

The solution:

After all that testing, all I had to do was make sure that my custom workspace had these particular tools 'unstacked'. Ie not nested under another tool.

 

If anyone has a spare moment can you test this by in your own workspace, nest one of these tools (any in my experience) and see if it crashes. 

@Matt Panzer, @Vlado, it looks like the Contour Edit Palette above is causing some issues, I shall file a bug.

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by twk

[Vlado]

3 hours ago, twk said:

After all that testing, all I had to do was make sure that my custom workspace had these particular tools 'unstacked'. Ie not nested under another tool.

 

Oh wow, I haven't heard about this. Can you enter a JIRA with your workspace file that causes this? I wasn't able to reproduce it immediately.

or you can send me the file over to vstanev@vectorworks.net, and I'll file it, to get fixed

[twk]

1 hour ago, Vlado said:

 

Oh wow, I haven't heard about this. Can you enter a JIRA with your workspace file that causes this? I wasn't able to reproduce it immediately.

or you can send me the file over to vstanev@vectorworks.net, and I'll file it, to get fixed

 

Yep have filed a bug (VB-196628), but it wasn't just my workspace.

Even with the stock workspaces, once you edit the stock workspace and nest any of those tools (doesnt have to be all of them) it will cause the crash when exiting the Edit contours mode. I'll try and find time for a demo video illustrating.

 

 

[bcd]

Fantastic sleuthing!! @twk