Rotation of symbols 2D/3D

[Cristiano Alves]

I'm trying to understand the behaviour of lighting fixtures when rotated because I figure out some inconsistencies; unless I'm doing something wrong, the behaviour of the 2D/3D symbols seems incorrect.

Everything works fine when fixtures are hung on a truss or positioned downwards:

 

However, when I use the rotation tool to orient them to staked on the ground the rear of the fixtures on 3D is correct but on 2D it's incorrect.

This is normal?
To correct this I needed to edit the 2D symbol, but... I already realize that editing 2d symbols on Vectorworks is not a good policy.

Can you help me with it to learn the correct way to make it?

[aheininen]

On OIP there is option to turn on Custom Plan Rotation.

 

Its quite low on OIP. When this is turned ON, you can specify Plan Rotation to rotate 2D presentation of symbol.

[Cristiano Alves]

8 hours ago, aheininen said:

On OIP there is option to turn on Custom Plan Rotation.

 

Its quite low on OIP. When this is turned ON, you can specify Plan Rotation to rotate 2D presentation of symbol.

Thank you for your answer I will check.

However, I already figure out that if I use on OIP the X rotation, Y rotation, and Z rotation instead rotation tool, this is not happening.
That way what is the correct way to Rotate a fixture?

[aheininen]

I don't know is there right way of rotating a fixture.

I see that relation to 2D depends on witch axel you rotate a fixture. Fixture 2D has only Z-axle to turn around. Fixture 3D can achieve same end position thru multiple axel rotations. If you rotate fixture so that Z-axle is modified then 2D will also rotate.

 

If you just want to have fixture rears to point same way rotate fixture on Y-axis.

[MrTemplate]

I don't know the source of your symbols, Cristiano, but it appears that the 3D origin is in the middle of the fixture, rather than at the top of the yoke? For that reason, your side view at the top of your post shows the center of the fixture resting on top of the truss, rather than the yoke? if you have access to the vectorworks lighting instrument libraries, it might be useful to compare this specific resource's origin and 3D loci points to a typical vectorworks resource, and see if their general locations match? good luck, Steve

[spettitt]

I have separate 'clamped' and 'unclamped' symbol variants for each fixture. The clamped one has clamps in the 3D component and the normal rotation of the 2D symbol.

 

The unclamped one (used for fixtures sitting on the floor) is configured the same (the geometry in the 3D component still the same orientation, with lens pointing down) but with the geometry in the 2D component reversed.

 

These are designed for use with Automatic working plane rather than manual rotating when you place them:

- Move to a 3D Isometric view

- Start with any 3D object that the fixture will place on (stage deck, or even just a very thin extrude if you don't know what the stage is)

- Start the lighting device tool and select the unclamped variant

- Change the working plane to 'Automatic'

- Click on a location on the surface, then the second click will set the rotation. before you make the second click, as you move your cursor, you'll see the fixture preview flip above/below the surface. Obviously find an angle that flips it above the surface.

 

The 3D and 2D should now match.

 

It is a bit confusing but: Flown fixtures - place in Top/Plan. Floor fixtures - place in isometric 3D and use the automatic working plane to flip the fixture.

[Cristiano Alves]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:31 PM, MrTemplate said:

I don't know the source of your symbols, Cristiano, but it appears that the 3D origin is in the middle of the fixture, rather than at the top of the yoke? For that reason, your side view at the top of your post shows the center of the fixture resting on top of the truss, rather than the yoke? if you have access to the vectorworks lighting instrument libraries, it might be useful to compare this specific resource's origin and 3D loci points to a typical vectorworks resource, and see if their general locations match? good luck, Steve

@MrTemplate My symbols came from official libraries, I use a legit VW licence.

 

The "Custom Plan Rotation" solved my first problem with this. But now that I use a fixture "staked" the "Custom Plan Rotation" doesn't solve this anymore.

 

 

 

 

On 5/28/2023 at 2:37 PM, spettitt said:

I have separate 'clamped' and 'unclamped' symbol variants for each fixture. The clamped one has clamps in the 3D component and the normal rotation of the 2D symbol.

 

The unclamped one (used for fixtures sitting on the floor) is configured the same (the geometry in the 3D component still the same orientation, with lens pointing down) but with the geometry in the 2D component reversed.

 

These are designed for use with Automatic working plane rather than manual rotating when you place them:

- Move to a 3D Isometric view

- Start with any 3D object that the fixture will place on (stage deck, or even just a very thin extrude if you don't know what the stage is)

- Start the lighting device tool and select the unclamped variant

- Change the working plane to 'Automatic'

- Click on a location on the surface, then the second click will set the rotation. before you make the second click, as you move your cursor, you'll see the fixture preview flip above/below the surface. Obviously find an angle that flips it above the surface.

 

The 3D and 2D should now match.

 

It is a bit confusing but: Flown fixtures - place in Top/Plan. Floor fixtures - place in isometric 3D and use the automatic working plane to flip the fixture.

@spettitt I tried to publish your process but I couldn't understand all the steps.
Especially when you talk about "working plane to 'Automatic' ".

I am using official symbols, this is not normal in my opinion. This never happened to me on Wysiwyg for example.

 

 

 

Additional problem:

TOP/Plan
Custom Plan Rotation = 0

 

Shaded

Custom Plan Rotation = 0
This is the real position and the orientation I want in both 3D and 2D.

 

TOP/Plan
Custom Plan Rotation = 180º

😐
 

I think there must be some correct way to rotate fixtures so this doesn't happen.
But I still don't understand what it is.

This time how do I solve the problem?

[Cristiano Alves]

Up

[SamIWas]

Man, I'm glad I found this topic.  This was driving me crazy today.  I don't know how this "feature" is supposed to work, but it works very badly.  

[Cristiano Alves]

On 10/30/2023 at 7:57 PM, SamIWas said:

Man, I'm glad I found this topic.  This was driving me crazy today.  I don't know how this "feature" is supposed to work, but it works very badly.  

Apparently, we still have no answer.

I've tried everything and the symbols are never correct.

I don't see how I can better document the problem to get help.

And I've tried several ways to rotate the fixtures to try to get a different result, but I didn't succeed.

The problem is that this issue has already generated problems/doubts in the building of some stages, and it would be good to try to correct or understand what we are doing incorrectly.